698 replies to this topic

[Julie]

Anyone planning on watching it? We will, but I'm not bothering with the televised jury selection. Should be a fascinating case.

[fenderjazz]

I don't know, it looks pretty open and shut from where the law stands.  Most of the public was misinformed and taken on a ride with this.

 

An unarmed African-American child was shot by a White Hispanic neighborood watch captain.

 

That sentence boils the blood doesn't it?

 

When you dissect what really happened and look at the available evidence, what will be admissible in court, the picture changes.

 

The facts the defense will show is that George Zimmerman was on his way to Target, not in any sort of "neighborhood watch" when he saw a very grown up, 17 year old cutting through two houses and feared he was part of a gang that had been robbing these homes.  He called 911 as he often did when there was trouble.  He followed this person for a bit, and eventually turned back, and was attacked near his car and had his head bashed to the pavement with Trayvon Martin on top of him.  He was on the ground screaming for help.  Then Trayvon Martin uncovered his carry and said, "You're going to die tonight motherf----er".  That's when George Zimmerman pulled out his gun and shot him.

 

The pictures the media shows of Trayvon Martin were when he was 13 years old.

 

The media makes much fuss about "stand your ground" laws when they were irrelevant in this case.  They covered up the self-defense aspects of the case, which were clearly part of the narrative of the police reports.  There were pictures of a bloodied Zimmerman, all ignored until revealed by the defense.

 

What is a "White Hispanic" anyway?  Is that some kind of new race?  He's Latino, his family pronounces his name (hoor-je') not (jorj)

 

Because we all were led on this "ride" shit's going to get ugly when he is acquitted.  A jury might give him manslaughter because of the fear of communal reprisals.

 

George Zimmerman will pay dearly in a civil case.  Defending yourself carries a high cost, even with laws on the books to protect people who do.  Still, as those of us who carry say, "Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6"  (Though FL only uses 6 jurors in non-death penalty cases)

[Casey]

I'll wait for the trial and get all of the facts before making a summary judgement.

[Hemisfears]

I'll be watching the race riots once they get started. I'm going to keep score if I can this time around.

Should be entertaining and fun.

[Hemisfears]

What is a "White Hispanic" anyway?  Is that some kind of new race?

[DarthLen]

Joe, some of the 'facts' you think you know aren't facts at all.

 

1 - Zimmerman didn't see Trayvon cutting through houses until AFTER Trayvon spotted Zimmerman following him. Trayvon was on the phone with a girlfriend when he made note of being followed and tried to get away. Try listening to the 911 calls where the dispatcher told Zimmerman not to follow him at that point and listen to the judgmental comments Zimmerman made before he went after him.

 

2 - Zimmerman wasn't part of any neighborhood watch as has been misreported many times; He was self-appointed neighborhood protector.

 

3 - Good luck with that acquittal. He's going away for some time, thankfully. He's a disgrace.

[Planet X-1]

 I think most of the "facts" have already been leaked to the media.  Zimmerman will be acquitted because of the beating he took by Martin first - it`s not a crime, per se, to follow someone.    

 

Otherwise you`d have to believe Zimmerman pulled out his gun to shoot Martin, but then decided to allow Martin to beat him senseless to the ground without firing a shot?  (ok maybe there is the outside chance that Zimmerman already has gun un-holstered, but that would mean Martin attacked somebody pointing a gun at him.....el loco....) 

 

And yes, most neighborhood watchers are self-appointed.  That`s why it`s called a "neighborhood watch" and not something else, like "Police Department".

 

 

I'll wait for the trial and get all of the facts before making a summary judgement.

 

 Well , you`re no fun 

[fenderjazz]

I'll wait for the trial and get all of the facts before making a summary judgement.

Well there goes months of message board fun

[A Rebel and a Runner]

I'll be watching the race riots once they get started. I'm going to keep score if I can this time around.

Should be entertaining and fun.

That, especially the bold, is one of the most flagrantly racist things I've ever seen you say.  And that's saying something.

You are a disgusting human being.

[chemistry1973]

That, especially the bold, is one of the most flagrantly racist things I've ever seen you say.  And that's saying something.

You are a disgusting human being.

 

Kinda strong don't you think--what is racist about it.  

[A Rebel and a Runner]

He equates violence perpetrated by ignorant people in anger over perceived injustice as something "entertaining and fun."

Remember, in the context of similar race riots (LA post-King), these events result in large amounts of property damage and the loss of many lives.  And are usually emblematic of severe social injustice.

The fact that a race riot like after the Rodney King trial is on people's minds is a sign that racial tensions aren't gone, and that racism is still alive, and that we almost tacitly admit that things aren't getting any better.

Communities act out, engage in riots, after events often because they feel they have nothing to lose.  A lot can be learned about a first-world nation by who riots, when, and how often.

[Wandering Hermit]

Well, I'm thinking this thread will be entertaining and fun, if nothing else. Promising. Very promising.

 

Carry on.

[Casey]

Well there goes months of message board fun

 

Oh, I didn't say that I wasn't going to be opinionated and make personal observations during the trial, I'm just not summarizing my opinions right now. 

[fenderjazz]

That, especially the bold, is one of the most flagrantly racist things I've ever seen you say.  And that's saying something.

You are a disgusting human being.

 

Yeah, let's not go flinging the racist word around flagrantly.  I don't like what he said, but it's not racism.  Sitting around eating popcorn and enjoying the race riots on TV is just plain wrong.  Race riots we don't need.  We need people who can accept the verdict.  That is most important.  I do agree with him, however, by distorting the facts, the media has made this worse.  It is truly the media who wants race riots.  They are the ones who want to party like it's 1992.  Certainly not me.

[A Rebel and a Runner]

In the context of the things that Hemi's said in the past, I am almost certain the comment was racially motivated.

 

"It's gonna be fun watching those stupid negroes trashing their neighborhoods," is how I read it.

 

He didn't have similar glee when talking about the British riots, as I recall.

[fenderjazz]

I'll let you have the last word, but only because I'd rather not derail this thread further.

 

As for the trial itself, I think it's really just down to the evidence itself.  What evidence exists and who it supports, if Zimmerman's story is corroborated by the evidence, etc.  Again, the biggest piece of evidence is the back of George Zimmerman's head, IMO.  If your head is being pounded into the pavement, you shoot.  At that point it's your life against his and that is clear self defense.  It matters not how you got there, who threw the first punch, whatever.  It's about saving your own life with whatever means is necessary.  Basic human instinct.  There were witnesses, and most of their affidavits support Zimmerman.

 

This blog is a notoriously pro-Zimmerman blog, but ignore that and look at the links at the top to the actual evidence:

 

http://zimmermantria...e.blogspot.com/

 

Look at the defendant's supplemental discovery to look at the evidence the state has disclosed that it will use in the trial, and the exculpatory evidence they ignored.

[Wandering Hermit]

I feel bad for George Zimmer. He just got fired from being the CEO of The Men's Wearhouse.

[A Rebel and a Runner]

The problem is that we know for a fact that Martin hit Zimmerman (his finger abrasion is most likely consistent with a punch), and that the two tussled on the ground at one point.  And we know that Zimmerman shot Martin.

None of that really tells us who STARTED it, though.  And how should the law treat Zimmerman getting out of his car and following?  Most analysis I've heard from neutral sources indicates that the calls for help in the background of the 911 call were likely a combination of both men.  Both were acting in fear and both probably did some stupid shit that they shouldn't have.

At the end of the day, though, it doesn't matter at all until we know who started the physical altercation.  And remember, this will set legal precedent, at least in Florida.  If, based on the evidence, Zimmerman is said to have started things and not have the self-defense plea on his side, then that means that following somebody for a prolonged period of time and then accosting them can be seen as an act of aggression justifying the use of violence.

[fenderjazz]

The problem is that we know for a fact that Martin hit Zimmerman (his finger abrasion is most likely consistent with a punch), and that the two tussled on the ground at one point.  And we know that Zimmerman shot Martin.

None of that really tells us who STARTED it, though.  And how should the law treat Zimmerman getting out of his car and following?  Most analysis I've heard from neutral sources indicates that the calls for help in the background of the 911 call were likely a combination of both men.  Both were acting in fear and both probably did some stupid shit that they shouldn't have.

At the end of the day, though, it doesn't matter at all until we know who started the physical altercation.  And remember, this will set legal precedent, at least in Florida.  If, based on the evidence, Zimmerman is said to have started things and not have the self-defense plea on his side, then that means that following somebody for a prolonged period of time and then accosting them can be seen as an act of aggression justifying the use of violence.

 

If Zimmerman is convicted of anything it will be an emotional response from the jury.  That's my opinion.  It's a sad case.  No winners really.  If following someone on your own property is illegal, that would be a big setback for self-preservation and protecting one's "castle"

[MrSkeptic]

He equates violence perpetrated by ignorant people in anger over perceived injustice as something "entertaining and fun."

Remember, in the context of similar race riots (LA post-King), these events result in large amounts of property damage and the loss of many lives.  And are usually emblematic of severe social injustice.

The fact that a race riot like after the Rodney King trial is on people's minds is a sign that racial tensions aren't gone, and that racism is still alive, and that we almost tacitly admit that things aren't getting any better.

Communities act out, engage in riots, after events often because they feel they have nothing to lose.  A lot can be learned about a first-world nation by who riots, when, and how often.

 

Let's review. Rodney King trial result = riots by blacks.

 

O.J. Simpson trial result = no riots by whites.

 

Maybe racism is still alive because some minorities continue to insist that it is when it benefits them (or seems to)?