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Why Is The Final Cut so reviled?


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#21 Moving Target

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Posted 18 November 2018 - 05:42 PM

There was a certain fervor surrounding the Falklands - I remember it vaguely. There was definitely and us vs. them vibe here in the states.

Seems a diplomatic deal could’ve been struck for sure - the loss of life was disproportionate to the importance of those islands. It was a bit ridiculous in retrospect - especially how close the UK was to actually losing the conflict to a much more poorly equipped foe.

But again-it’s hard to really understand the politics of it from a US point of view.

 

Actually the Argentinian garrison of Port Stanley was twice the size of the British infantry forces surrounding it and was dug in.  The British artillery gunners were down to their last few rounds per gun, but the Argentinians were largely conscripts and eventually gave in rather easily.

 

The RN task force had only twenty or so Sea Harrier jets and never won air superiority.  Fortunately for them the Argentine air force was operating at extreme range and were unable to dogfight.  The sinking of the Belgrano intimidated them so that their carrier retreated to harbour and stayed there.  But one hit from an Exocet missile on one of the RN CV or CVL would have ended the British operation.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Anyhoo.

 

Had Galtieri not taken the Union Jack in 1982, then I think there would have been a diplomatic solution by now. 

 

As things stand, such a solution is unthinkable. 

 

Argentina recently tried to buy Rafale fighters from the French government which would have given them air capability equivalent to the Eurofighter Typhoon, making a second invasion much more likely. Through the EU, Britain was able to put pressure on Paris and block the deal. Next year, we will have less diplomatic clout and Argentina may try to acquire the modern jets again. 

 

The RN will have the new carriers with F-35B aircraft operational soon to deter a second invaion, but there is little in the way of frigates and destroyers to guard a CVA and it would pull our remaining capability away from the Baltic states where Putin continues to sabre-rattle.



#22 sbach66

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Posted 19 November 2018 - 01:14 AM


More here if interested:

https://www.amazon.c...&qid=1542558488


Downloaded the sample and checked it out, quite liked it, James. It's been added to the queue.

#23 Slim

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 09:59 AM

Thanks! That book was actually born as a thread on CP that died at the most recent Year Zero. It occurred to me when it was finished that if I polished it, extended it a bit, added some background and a bit of analysis, it might make a decent e-book. It's been a nice little earner. Nothing dramatic, but in terms of the time I spent on it (about 75 hours), it's rewarded me nicely.



#24 chemistry1973

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 02:21 PM

So cool- didn’t even notice that YOU wrote it. Excellent. And a great way to settle an argument!

#25 Wandering Hermit

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Posted 21 November 2018 - 12:10 PM

Always LOVED this album. Some of the greatest, most heartfelt poetry that Waters ever wrote shows up here. And that is saying a lot.

To wit, typing from memory here:

 

Goodbye Max, goodbye Ma

After the service

When you're walking slowly to the car

And the silver in her hair

Shines in the cold November air

You hear the tolling bell

And touch the silk in your lapel

And as the teardrops rise to meet

The comfort of the band

You take her frail hand

And hold on to the dream

 

A place to stay

Enough to eat

Somewhere old heroes

Shuffle safely down the street

Where you can speak out loud

About your doubts and fears

And what's more - no one ever disappears

You never hear their standard issue

Kicking in your door

You can relax

On both sides of the tracks

And maniacs

Don't blow holes

In bandsmen by remote control

And everyone has recourse to the law

And no one kills the children anymore



#26 chemistry1973

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Posted 21 November 2018 - 02:51 PM

Always LOVED this album. Some of the greatest, most heartfelt poetry that Waters ever wrote shows up here. And that is saying a lot.
To wit, typing from memory here:

Goodbye Max, goodbye Ma
After the service
When you're walking slowly to the car
And the silver in her hair
Shines in the cold November air
You hear the tolling bell
And touch the silk in your lapel
And as the teardrops rise to meet
The comfort of the band
You take her frail hand
And hold on to the dream

A place to stay
Enough to eat
Somewhere old heroes
Shuffle safely down the street
Where you can speak out loud
About your doubts and fears
And what's more - no one ever disappears
You never hear their standard issue
Kicking in your door
You can relax
On both sides of the tracks
And maniacs
Don't blow holes
In bandsmen by remote control
And everyone has recourse to the law
And no one kills the children anymore


Gripping and cinematic.

#27 SJS

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Posted 21 November 2018 - 06:11 PM

Haha. You gotta love CP.  "And to prove my point, here's my book on the subject." 

 

Yeah, that was a pretty good moment.


LYqbjSn.jpg


#28 SJS

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Posted 21 November 2018 - 06:13 PM

Always LOVED this album. Some of the greatest, most heartfelt poetry that Waters ever wrote shows up here. And that is saying a lot.

 

Agreed.


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#29 scott14

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Posted 21 November 2018 - 06:40 PM

I've always loved the album, but it is a mood piece, being a very mellow album for the most part.  It sounds just like what it is, a follow up to The Wall, exploring some of the same themes, and definitely the least dynamic of "classic" era Floyd.  Probably suffers most from being basically a Roger solo album with Gilmore and Mason playing on it.  It was basically Waters in "my way or the highway" mode, and wasn't Richard Wright fired by Waters prior?  Rumor had it that The Final Cut and Pros And Cons Of Hitchhiking were both written by Roger with the intention of one being a solo record and one being Floyd, but with no decision which would be which prior to the writing being mostly done.

 

So I can easily see it being a very divisive album amongst fans, but most of the naysayers I know just think it's boring, not necessarily bad.



#30 chemistry1973

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Posted 21 November 2018 - 07:31 PM

Water’s last record was excellent. Check it out if you haven’t.

#31 scott14

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Posted 30 November 2018 - 06:14 PM

Water’s last record was excellent. Check it out if you haven’t.

Absolutely a great album.  It takes a cool approach by sounding like Floyd tonally while utterly avoiding the signature playing styles of the other members.  Brilliant production by Nigel Godrich (long time Radiohead producer), capturing that Floyd sound in a very modern context.  Picture That is the standout for me, best song Waters has done since Not Now John.






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