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Gruber Neutered Neil


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#1 KaBoom21

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 01:13 AM

He did, didn't he?
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#2 fenderjazz

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 03:44 AM

I think so. On the one hand he may have given him some sustainability. Neil might have hurt himself sooner and taken himself out of the game earlier without Gruber.
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#3 KaBoom21

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 05:30 AM

Good point. I just listened to all the studio albums and it was pretty apparent. That wimpy-sounding ride pattern on TFE (the song) is a prime example.

Hold Your Fire was a revelation. Always been a fan, but there are some seriously strong songs on it.
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#4 Pariah Dawg

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 03:15 PM

Joe's mechanic does not approve of this thread.
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#5 chemistry1973

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 07:36 PM

Some ways yes, some ways no I guess.

I think his studying with Pete Erskine had a more positive impact.

Peart’s major problem has been time keeping and groove. But by Counterparts, it seems like he had a lock on that.

His drumming on the Time Machine tour is pretty excellent. Clockwork Angels too. He really shined with the new material.
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#6 chemistry1973

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 07:39 PM

Also - I feel like Peart had already accomplished a natural feel by the time he sat with Gruber.

Of course playing with the sticks backwards is one bad habit that probably fucked with his wrists. Especially considering how hard this guy hit.

Adopting a traditional grip might have good for posture and so forth, but really he should’ve been sitting down with Stewart Copeland or Bill Berry (more of a German grip) about that.
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#7 Three Eyes

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 02:30 AM

Strangely analogous.

 

http://www.nbc.com/s...er/n12162?snl=1

http://www.nbc.com/s...er/n12163?snl=1

 

 


Hey there goes Alex. He's loaded with money. Wow he's really set himself up great.


#8 Three Eyes

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 04:47 AM

I would argue Neil neutered Neil. Gruber didn't seek him out and tell him, "Hey, let me teach you a drumming style unsuited to the music you've been playing for the last 1/4 century so your band can suck more."


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Hey there goes Alex. He's loaded with money. Wow he's really set himself up great.


#9 sbach66

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 04:00 PM

Joe's mechanic does not approve of this thread.

There's a blast from the past.


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#10 jeffro

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 04:47 PM

hans.jpg


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Pure fat, topped with a layer of fat - Alex Lifeson


#11 ClassicB

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 08:15 PM

Yes, by the time TFE came out, Neils new approach to the drums and the switch to DW's made RUSH music take a huge hit in sound and attack. It was like Neil wanted to be a full time Buddy Rich Big Band Drummer. I always thought to myself, for christ sake Neil, bring back the double bass kit with concert toms!!! This is RUSH not a tribute to Buddy!


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#12 Wandering Hermit

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 01:01 AM

T4E sucks. And NEPs pussiness on it is a big reason why.


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#13 SpaceGhost2112

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 12:44 AM

Y'all are deef!  :P   T4E is some of Neil's strongest drumming.  And the drums sound damn good too!  That was before his switch to DW, yes??  Could also be a mic / mix thing. 
Any way... he didn't stay with Freddy's methods for long after that period.  When they came back with VT and beyond, his technique was back to a mix of old and new styles.  (No trad grip)  Then as stated above, he studied with other notable drummers.  


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#14 EZrhythm

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 04:58 AM

T4E sucks. And Al and Ged's preschool song writing on it is a big reason why.

 

Fixed.



#15 Slim

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 01:43 PM

T4E is the only album that I particularly like Neil's drumming on. Nothing at all wrong with his drumming on other albums, but it doesn't stand out to me. I love the intensity and the warmth of his drumming on the T4E title track especially. It's almost musical.


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#16 fenderjazz

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 02:52 PM

T4E is the only album that I particularly like Neil's drumming on. Nothing at all wrong with his drumming on other albums, but it doesn't stand out to me. I love the intensity and the warmth of his drumming on the T4E title track especially. It's almost musical.

 

It's very musical, I give you that.  If you watch his instructional videos from that time where he plays it unaccompanied, you can just listen to it that way and actually be pleased.  I think Gruber gave him a more musical quality to some of his parts.  The dance move kind of playing that he learned may have facilitated that.  When he started going back to his old ways in a sort of hybrid-Gruber style, it became less interesting.  When he played some older songs with this style, it's obvious it effected his clock.  YYZ and Limelight come to mind, where something just was "off".  He seemed to fix that on the last tour.

 

All of that said, the one person I want to hear play a Rush tune with Geddy and Alex, now that Neil is sidelined is Stewart Copeland.  Stew is very much like the Neil of the early 80s and hits hard with those nice drier sounding drums.


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#17 Wandering Hermit

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 11:48 PM

I'll stick with the guy that played drums on PeW and 2112 and VT, thanks. He is not the same guy that is on T4E.

 

Not that I listen to any Rush anymore.


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#18 bartok

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 04:43 PM

I think Freddie Gruber added more "snap"/staccato to Neil's playing.

 

Whereas before Neil impressed you by hitting a lot of notes/complexiity, after Gruber he impressed you by hitting a single note hard/simplicity.

 

Gruber reduced Neil's speed, maybe, but increased his attack.

 

I think pre-Gruber was more about phrases/runs of notes/legato, whereas post-Gruber was more about individual notes/staccato.

 

Gruber also gave Neil a circular feel to his play, which is different than his previous, box or square-like feel.

I think the circular feel is probably more "next level" jazz-esque drumming, whereas the box/square thing is more of a traditional/rock approach.  Although, admittedly,  box like playing is often what we want to hear with rock 'n roll.

 

That's what it sounds like to me, anyway.  I'm not a drummer.

 

I don't know - I enjoy both styles of Peart's playing.

 

I will say under the new style Peart does less "overplaying", which was a problem on some of the Hold Your Fire, Presto era stuff - where the drum part is just way too complicated for the song and it sounds awkward and ill-fitting.



#19 chemistry1973

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 10:34 PM

I think Freddie Gruber added more "snap"/staccato to Neil's playing.

Whereas before Neil impressed you by hitting a lot of notes/complexiity, after Gruber he impressed you by hitting a single note hard/simplicity.

Gruber reduced Neil's speed, maybe, but increased his attack.

I think pre-Gruber was more about phrases/runs of notes/legato, whereas post-Gruber was more about individual notes/staccato.

Gruber also gave Neil a circular feel to his play, which is different than his previous, box or square-like feel.
I think the circular feel is probably more "next level" jazz-esque drumming, whereas the box/square thing is more of a traditional/rock approach. Although, admittedly, box like playing is often what we want to hear with rock 'n roll.

That's what it sounds like to me, anyway. I'm not a drummer.

I don't know - I enjoy both styles of Peart's playing.

I will say under the new style Peart does less "overplaying", which was a problem on some of the Hold Your Fire, Presto era stuff - where the drum part is just way too complicated for the song and it sounds awkward and ill-fitting.


I have to agree with this. I just listened to the newly released Lakeside Park from the FTK tour in 77.

NP is overplaying his face off. The tempo is all over the place. A couple near trainwrecks in there too.

#20 chemistry1973

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 10:36 PM



Not very good.




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