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Bomb at Ariana Grande Concert in Manchester, UK - 20+ Dead


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#21 Bones

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 03:53 PM

God Bless all the victims, their families, and all the rescue personnel.    Such a senseless tragedy.


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#22 Moving Target

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 04:26 PM

I think the UK has been doing a decent job with counterterrorism, it's just that everyone expects the bomber to be inside the venue.  People relax when they come out, they don't expect an "exit bomber" like this.  Now it's time for everyone to retool.


I think the UK is the best at it in Europe by a long way. But networks are easy to detect while lone wolves are harder to spot.

#23 Pressure/Hopenosis

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 04:28 PM

This is going to come down to racial profiling at some point.  PC will not keep any of us safe if this is the new norm...


They say the pen is mightier than the sword.  I say fuck the pen because you can die by the sword! - Tom Araya


#24 Moving Target

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 04:30 PM

This is going to come down to racial profiling at some point.  PC will not keep any of us safe if this is the new norm...


We are assuming that this bomber was a jihadi of course.

But some white English reverts are in jail for jihadist activity too. How do you profile them?

#25 Pressure/Hopenosis

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 04:35 PM

We are assuming that this bomber was a jihadi of course.

But some white English reverts are in jail for jihadist activity too. How do you profile them?

"Salam Abedi" I'm just guessing of Arabic ethnicity...


They say the pen is mightier than the sword.  I say fuck the pen because you can die by the sword! - Tom Araya


#26 Moving Target

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 04:39 PM

Manchester born, 22 years old, of Libyan descent.

Always the youngsters who fall prey to this perverse ideology, always second generation immigrants....

#27 Moving Target

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 04:53 PM

What's the bet that he came from a broken home?

An absent father is often key to the pathology of these guys. Lacking a strong male role model at home, they find narrative in a brutal distortion of Islam, a rigid belief system with the sternest of father figures. I saw a programme about two white English reverts. Both lacking their father. Both in Belmarsh for terror plotting now.

I think a lot of football hooligans and EDL types have the same psychology. No Dad to protect and nurture them as they grow, so they join a violent gang to feel safe, to feel like men.
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#28 Saint Ronnie

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 05:46 PM

No.  Not sure why that was directed at me. Clearly you are trying to make a political point, but I am not a strong proponent of guns. Although I do respect the constitutional right to bear arms. 

 

That statement is nothing short of ridiculous.

 

When you brought in the idea of events and large gatherings in the States and the idea of increased security, brings to mind how many Americans may be carrying weapons. So if that's the case, where does public safety concerns end and right to bear arms NRA perversions begin. I have no idea of your position guns, I assume being a right wing American, it's a relatively unreasonable one, but that's only an assumption. Anyway, I shouldn't have brought guns into this topic, it was a knee jerk reaction to a righ wing American bringing up the idea of public safety - something they are not usually concerned about and actively work against. 


Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

— Matthew 6:19–21,24 (KJV)

#29 The Macallan

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 06:34 PM

Yeah, let's keep this on topic.

 

My post was really lamenting the fact that there’s not much can be done about this type of act at the street level. There are certainly intelligence gathering measures that can attempt to head this off at the pass, but as we see it is not infallible. I double-time it from my train to street level at Penn Station everyday and I am always aware of exit points…though neither of which will help me if a guy with a vest goes off 10 yards away. I don’t worry about it, but I am aware. Conversely, I give no thought at all to a licensed member of the NRA shooting up the joint because it won’t happen.

 

To sum up, in your mind – Republican/Right of Center = unreasonable = not concerned about public safety = actively work against public safety = gun perversion. That’s some helluva bucket you lump people into. Very telling. Not to trip over the same logic, I have to ask the question…are all liberals that unwavering in thought, intolerant in practice and quick to judge? Look in the mirror pal.


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#30 GhostWriter

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 06:49 PM

I think Enoch Powell was a British prophet. In 1968:

 

Here is a decent, ordinary fellow-Englishman, who in broad daylight in my own town says to me, his Member of Parliament, that the country will not be worth living in for his children. I simply do not have the right to shrug my shoulders and think about something else. What he is saying, thousands and hundreds of thousands are saying and thinking – not throughout Great Britain, perhaps, but in the areas that are already undergoing the total transformation to which there is no parallel in a thousand years of English history....
 
For reasons which they could not comprehend, and in pursuance of a decision by default, on which they were never consulted, they found themselves made strangers in their own country. They found their wives unable to obtain hospital beds in childbirth, their children unable to obtain school places, their homes and neighbourhoods changed beyond recognition, their plans and prospects for the future defeated; at work they found that employers hesitated to apply to the immigrant worker the standards of discipline and competence required of the native-born worker; they began to hear, as time went by, more and more voices which told them that they were now the unwanted. On top of this, they now learn that a one-way privilege is to be established by Act of Parliament; a law which cannot, and is not intended to, operate to protect them or redress their grievances, is to be enacted to give the stranger, the disgruntled and the agent provocateur the power to pillory them for their private actions....
 
As I look ahead, I am filled with foreboding. Like the Roman, I seem to see "the River Tiber foaming with much blood". That tragic and intractable phenomenon which we watch with horror on the other side of the Atlantic but which there is interwoven with the history and existence of the States itself, is coming upon us here by our own volition and our own neglect. Indeed, it has all but come. In numerical terms, it will be of American proportions long before the end of the century. Only resolute and urgent action will avert it even now. Whether there will be the public will to demand and obtain that action, I do not know. All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.

 


It is true, that a little philosophy inclineth man's mind to atheism; but depth in philosophy bringeth men's minds about to religion.

- Francis Bacon

 


#31 Pressure/Hopenosis

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 08:43 PM

What's the bet that he came from a broken home?

An absent father is often key to the pathology of these guys. Lacking a strong male role model at home, they find narrative in a brutal distortion of Islam, a rigid belief system with the sternest of father figures. I saw a programme about two white English reverts. Both lacking their father. Both in Belmarsh for terror plotting now.

I think a lot of football hooligans and EDL types have the same psychology. No Dad to protect and nurture them as they grow, so they join a violent gang to feel safe, to feel like men.

On this we can agree...


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#32 chemistry1973

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 09:23 PM

What's the bet that he came from a broken home?

An absent father is often key to the pathology of these guys. Lacking a strong male role model at home, they find narrative in a brutal distortion of Islam, a rigid belief system with the sternest of father figures. I saw a programme about two white English reverts. Both lacking their father.

 

Sprinkle that with the "age of 23" and you have one lost, confused, jaded, disillusioned person.

 

Imagine if Libya wasn't completely ruined by the West and that the Libyan people had the ability to build their own government and prevent the mass exodus of refugees across the Med? 

 

We need to get out of the ME. That's the only way to stop this. Otherwise - total annihilation.


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#33 nickslikk2112

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 09:39 PM

I was down in London last night for a concert. Got back to the Hotel, put the telly on and this news was just breaking. Awful.

A mate of mine who lives in Manchester was helping out with the Salvation Army today, now THAT'S the British spirit. We didn't let the IRA get to us, nor will we these sick buggers.

Another mate of mine is worried though, because he's a Muslim and a regular concert goer, he doesn't want people eyeing him was suspicion.

 

On the plus side, seppoes might now realise that Englandland is more than just Londonistan...


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#34 Moving Target

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 09:47 PM

I was down in London last night for a concert. Got back to the Hotel, put the telly on and this news was just breaking. Awful.
A mate of mine who lives in Manchester was helping out with the Salvation Army today, now THAT'S the British spirit. We didn't let the IRA get to us, nor will we these sick buggers.


Aye. Our parents took the Luftwaffe - we can deal with these fools.

Muslim doctors work round the clock at Manchester Royal Infirmary. Muslim cabbies ferry the concert goers home at no charge. These are the real British Muslims!
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#35 The Enemy Within

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 09:55 PM

Send them all back. Every last one. They hate you and your way of life. Or submit. You have two choices. It's time for Reconquista 2.0

Send them all back where exactly?

 

What your actually calling for, is the forced expulsion of hundreds of thousands of innocent British citizens.

 

Lets consider that for a while shall we?

 

It's not really going to help the situation in the long run, is it!


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#36 Pariah Dawg

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 10:03 PM

"Dangerous Woman" Meets Dangerous Man
by Mark Steyn
Steyn on Britain
May 23, 2017


The pop star Ariana Grande has canceled the remaining dates of her "Dangerous Woman" tour following the murder of 22 fans (at the time of writing) and the injury of dozens more at her concert in Manchester. The Manchester Royal Infirmary reports that half the victims brought to the hospital overnight are children. The killer was a suicide bomber. Theresa May says the police believe they know his identity. The usual, predictable details will follow. [UPDATE: He's Salman Abedi, the Manchester-born son of Libyan refugees and another "known wolf".]

As The Independent's headline has it:

There's only one way Britain should respond to attacks such as Manchester. That is by carrying on exactly as before.

That's not actually the "only" way Britain could respond, but it seems the way to bet, judging from the responses of the political class. "Carry on" is a very British expression. One thinks of the famous scene in one of the most famous of the Carry On comedies, Carry On Up The Khyber, surely the most insightful film ever made about Afghanistan: as you'll recall, the revolting Khasi of Khalabar grows ever more enraged at the British Governor's refusal to let the shelling and destruction of Government House disrupt his dinner party. Even when the Khasi has the main course replaced with the head of a decapitated fakir, Her Majesty's viceroy declines to let his eye be caught by these vulgar attention-seeking jihadists. The film received unenthusiastic reviews from London critics in 1968. One would not have predicted that half-a-century later it would be official British policy on the home front.

Easier said than done, alas. A couple of hours ago, as I write, the Arndale shopping center in Manchester was evacuated, somewhat chaotically, with hundreds of customers stampeding for the exits lest they be the cause of The Independent's next carry-on editorial. The Arndale was the scene of the last big terror attack - in 1996, when the IRA totaled it. Two hundred people were injured, but nobody died, and you don't have to be a terror apologist like Jeremy Corbyn to find the bad old days of Irish republicanism almost quaint by comparison. A few weeks ago the BBC reported that "approximately 850 people" from the United Kingdom have gone to Syria and Iraq to fight for Isis and the like. That's more volunteers than the IRA were able to recruit in thirty years of the "Troubles", when MI5 estimated that they never had more than a hundred active terrorists out in the field. This time maybe it's the exotic appeal of foreign travel, as opposed to a month holed up in a barn in Newry.

Carrying on in Germany, Angela Merkel pronounced the attack "incomprehensible". But she can't be that uncomprehending, can she? Our declared enemies are perfectly straightforward in their stated goals, and their actions are consistent with their words. They select their targets with some care. For a while, it was Europe's Jews, at a Brussels museum and a Toulouse school and a Copenhagen synagogue and a Paris kosher supermarket. But Continentals are, except for political photo-ops on Holocaust Memorial Day, relatively heartless about dead Jews, and wrote off such incidents as something to do with "Israeli settlements" and "occupation" and of no broader significance.

So they moved on to slaughter 49 gays in a nightclub in Orlando - the biggest mound of gay corpses ever piled up in American history and the worst terror attack on American soil since 9/11. But all the usual noisy LGBTQWERTY activists fell suddenly silent, as if they'd all gone back in the closet and curled up in the fetal position. And those Democrats who felt obliged to weigh in thought it was something to do with the need for gun control...

So they targeted provocative expressions of the infidel's abominable false religion, decapitating a French priest at Mass and mowing down pedestrians at a Berlin Christmas market. But post-Christian Europe takes Christianity less seriously than its enemies do, and so that too merited little more than a shrug and a pledge to carry on.

So they selected symbols of nationhood, like France's Bastille Day, Canada's Cenotaph, and the Mother of Parliaments in London. But taking seriously assaults on your own nation's symbols would require you to take your nation seriously, and most western citizens are disinclined to do so. As the great universal talismanic anthem of the age has it, "Imagine there's no countries/It's easy if you try..."

So the new Caliphate's believers figured out that what their enemy really likes is consumerism and pop music. Hence the attacks on the Champs-Élysées and the flagship Åhléns department store in Stockholm, and the bloodbath at the Eagles of Death Metal concert in Paris and now at Ariana Grande's "Dangerous Woman" tour.

In the decade since the Canadian Islamic Congress launched their "flagrant Islamophobia' lawsuits over my book, various comrades such as Ezra Levant and Douglas Murray have noted, correctly, that a principled commitment to free speech has always been a minority concern - and an even smaller minority with respect to free speech about Islam. As the most learned imam John Kerry put it with respect to the Charlie Hebdo massacre, there was "a sort of particularised focus and perhaps even a legitimacy – not a legitimacy, but a rationale..." Those cartoonists, they were all wearing short skirts and asking for it.

Conversely, most other western citizens believe that, to invert Trotsky, if you're not interested in Islam, Islam won't be interested in you. Ariana Grande was eight at the time of 9/11, and most of her fans even younger. They have passed their entire sentient lives in the age of Islamic terror, yet somehow assume it's something compartmentalized and sealed off from them. "Dangerous Woman" is meant to be an attitude, nothing more - an edgy pose in a pop culture that lost any edge long ago; a great T-shirt, like the ones last night scavenged from the merchandising stands and used to bandage the wounded. It must come as a shock to realize there are those who take your ersatz provocations as the real thing, and are genuinely provoked by them.

"Carrying on exactly as before", as The Independent advises, will not be possible. A few months ago, I was in Toulouse, where Jewish life has vanished from public visibility and is conducted only behind the prison-like walls of a fortress schoolhouse and a centralized synagogue that requires 24/7 protection by French soldiers; I went to Amsterdam, which is markedly less gay than it used to be; I walked through Molenbeek after dark, where unaccompanied women dare not go. You can carry on, you can stagger on, but life is not exactly as it was before. Inch by inch, it's smaller and more constrained.

And so it will prove for cafe life, and shopping malls, and pop concerts. Maybe Ariana Grande will be back in the UK - or maybe she will decide that discretion is the better part of a Dangerous Woman's valor. But there will be fewer young girls in the audience - because no mum or dad wants to live for the rest of their lives with the great gaping hole in your heart opening up for dozens of English parents this grim morning. And one day the jihad will get lucky and the bomb will take with it one of these filthy infidel "shameless" pop whores cavorting on stage in her underwear. You can carry on exactly as before, but in a decade or two, just as there are fewer gay bars in Amsterdam and no more Jewish shops on the Chaussée de Gand, there will be less music in the air in western cities. Even the buskers, like the one in Manchester's Piccadilly Gardens today serenading a shattered city with "All You Need Is Love", will have moved on, having learned that it's a bit more complicated than that.

I am currently reading Douglas Murray's fine book, The Strange Death of Europe, which lays out, unsparingly, the central illusion of the last half-century - that you could demographically transform the composition of hitherto more or less homogeneous nation states on a scale no stable society has ever attempted, and that there would be no consequences except a more vibrant range of local restaurants. Mrs May declared this morning on the steps of Downing Street that she had held a top-level security meeting, or what they call in Britain a "COBRA", which sounds like something scary enough to do battle with SPECTRE; in that sense, it's a very butch acronym for a bit of bureaucratic furniture labeling (Cabinet Office Briefing Room A). But I'll bet the mood around the table was one of fatalism and resignation, outside a few micro-adjustments to the budget of counter-terrorism agencies and the number of CCTV cameras and the amount of security checks at "sensitive" "high-value" targets like department stores, and theatres, and restaurants and football grounds and pubs and chip shops and...

But the arithmetic is not difficult: Poland and Hungary and Slovakia do not have Islamic terrorism because they have very little Islam. France and Germany and Belgium admit more and more Islam, and thus more and more terrorism. Yet the subject of immigration has been all but entirely absent from the current UK election campaign. Thirty years ago, in the interests of stopping IRA terrorism, the British state was not above preventing the internal movement within its borders of unconvicted, uncharged, unarrested Republican sympathizers seeking to take a ferry from Belfast to Liverpool. Today it declares it can do nothing to prevent the movement of large numbers of the Muslim world from thousands of miles away to the heart of the United Kingdom. It's just a fact of life - like being blown up when you go to a pop concert.

All of us have gotten things wrong since 9/11. But few of us have gotten things as disastrously wrong as May and Merkel and Hollande and an entire generation of European political leaders who insist that remorseless incremental Islamization is both unstoppable and manageable. It is neither - and, for the sake of the dead of last night's carnage and for those of the next one, it is necessary to face that honestly. Theresa May's statement in Downing Street is said by my old friends at The Spectator to be "defiant", but what she is defying is not terrorism but reality. So too for all the exhausted accessories of defiance chic: candles, teddy bears, hashtags, the pitiful passive rote gestures that acknowledge atrocity without addressing it - like the Eloi in H G Wells' Time Machine, too evolved to resist the Morlocks.

As I asked around Europe all last year: What's the happy ending here? In a decade it will be worse, and in two decades worse still, and then in three decades people will barely recall how it used to be, when all that warmth and vibrancy of urban life that Owen Jones hymns in today's Guardian is but a memory, and the music has died away, and Manchester is as dull and listless as today's Alexandria. If Mrs May or Frau Merkel has a happier ending, I'd be interested to hear it. If not, it is necessary not to carry on, but to change, and soon - before it's too late.

https://www.steynonl...s-dangerous-man
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#37 Three Eyes

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 10:05 PM

"Salam Abedi" I'm just guessing of Arabic ethnicity...

 

No, that's classic Irish.


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Hey there goes Alex. He's loaded with money. Wow he's really set himself up great.


#38 nickslikk2112

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 10:06 PM

No, that's classic Irish.

Now that would be Salam O'Bedi :)


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#39 nickslikk2112

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 10:08 PM

"Salam Abedi" I'm just guessing of Arabic ethnicity...

What if he were a Christian Arab?


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#40 Moving Target

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 10:10 PM

The PM has raised the threat level from Severe to Critical, the only time it has been that high since 9/11.

5000 troops will go onto the streets supporting the Police at key sites such as sporting events, concerts and transport hubs.
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