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Bill Nye falls further down the credibility sinkhole


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#21 fast eddie

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 12:00 AM

It's been said that a lot of unrest in Africa is associated with drought and environmental degradation...
< He's flippin' off The Man, see...

#22 Greg

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 04:04 AM

I watched the first episode of his show tonight and it was cringy.  But like Beth's post, it doesn't negate his work.  Far from it.  Nye is an enthusiastic supporter of reason over nonsense and that makes him look a bit like a cheerleader and while it's goofy, I don't really see anything wrong with it.  He's a giant nerd and he loves what he does and wants others to see the value in the scientific method.  I couldn't fault a person for encouraging reason over bullshit...

 

But yet all we have here in this thread is a blinkered stone-ager claiming that he's going to come out as a pedophile one day.  Great criticism there, I must say...way to go.



#23 GhostWriter

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 11:27 AM

What sticks in my craw is how he ties Islamic terrorism to climate change. If drought causes religious violence I suspect we'd have seen a lot more of it down through history where and when drought has occurred.

 

Which implies that if we could just lower the temperature a couple degrees all this Islamic savagery would just disappear. It's just such anti-scientific nonsense it's hard to believe people aren't ashamed to utter it.


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#24 GhostWriter

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 11:32 AM

I watched the first episode of his show tonight and it was cringy.  But like Beth's post, it doesn't negate his work.  Far from it.  Nye is an enthusiastic supporter of reason over nonsense and that makes him look a bit like a cheerleader and while it's goofy, I don't really see anything wrong with it.  He's a giant nerd and he loves what he does and wants others to see the value in the scientific method.  I couldn't fault a person for encouraging reason over bullshit...

 

But yet all we have here in this thread is a blinkered stone-ager claiming that he's going to come out as a pedophile one day.  Great criticism there, I must say...way to go.

 

As a certified midwit, I can see how you overlook all the anti-science nonsense in order to push your science fetishism to new levels. It's laughable that you can't be objective and criticize what necessarily needs to be criticized. It's not shocking in the least because Nye has obviously fooled a lot of people into thinking what he is peddling is actual science; you included.

 

And go read up on physiognomy. I'm just trying to help you out of the sandbox so you can play with the big boys one day. You're the typical "I f*ckin' love science" guy who really wouldn't know it unless it was tattooed to your forehead.


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#25 Greg

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 01:22 PM

You're so cute when you try to sound smart...

 

:wub:



#26 GhostWriter

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 01:27 PM

You're so cute when you try to sound smart...

 

:wub:

 

Your usual retort when you're left confounded. Keep trying.


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#27 Moving Target

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 04:53 PM

As a certified midwit, I can see how you overlook all the anti-science nonsense in order to push your science fetishism to new levels. It's laughable that you can't be objective and criticize what necessarily needs to be criticized. It's not shocking in the least because Nye has obviously fooled a lot of people into thinking what he is peddling is actual science; you included.

 

And go read up on physiognomy. I'm just trying to help you out of the sandbox so you can play with the big boys one day. You're the typical "I f*ckin' love science" guy who really wouldn't know it unless it was tattooed to your forehead.

 

 

If he designed a Boeing fuel injector and Mars probe components then, yeah, he's convinced me that he's peddling actual science.  I'm not sure how much more objective evidence you'd need. 

 

Physiognomy is psuedoscience, long abandoned by critical thinkers, peddled by those Nazi proponents of the ubermensh, and it's revealing that once again you use the Fascism 101 technique of impugning the sexuality of people you don't like.



#28 GhostWriter

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 05:00 PM

If he designed a Boeing fuel injector and Mars probe components then, yeah, he's convinced me that he's peddling actual science.  I'm not sure how much more objective evidence you'd need. 

 

Actually watch the show before commenting. You'll sound slightly more informed when you realize the nonsense he's teaching is not the least bit scientific.

 

 

Physiognomy is psuedoscience, long abandoned by critical thinkers, peddled by those Nazi proponents of the ubermensh, and it's revealing that once again you use the Fascism 101 technique of impugning the sexuality of people you don't like.

 

And it was a joke that the humorless atheists around here continue to miss; yourself included. I don't dislike Bill Nye; I know very little about him. The point of the post was to point out just another thing you anti-science progressives are doing to keep your unscientific deviant sexuality narrative alive. So no, you haven't surprised me in the least. Perhaps you and Greg might actually discuss the "science" behind Nye's assertion, but I won't hold my breath. It's never about the science; it's all about ideology. You're woefully transparent.


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#29 SJS

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 07:39 PM

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I take a different perspective on this.

 

I think everyone puts their credibility on the line every day when they say and do things.  One's credibility is not cemented in stone by the degrees one earns or the jobs one has had or has not had.

 

It's a catch-22.  As a science educator myself, I find myself wishing for better science education at the same time I find myself cringing at science education.  The truth is, science education in some sort of media format - TV, book, lecture, documentary, whatever - has rarely been executed well.  Isaac Asimov and Carl Sagan could do it, but who else?

 

Almost every celebrity science guy has disappointed me.  I don't know if the fame goes to these people's heads or what it is.  In Bill Nye's case I think there's such pressure from god-knows-where to be entertaining, daring, and fresh that the actual science gets lost.  Asimov and Sagan treated people as intelligent and as naturally curious, but the modern orientation is that people need to be entertained into understanding and enjoying science.  So Nye ends up looking like an idiot.

 

Look at America's doctor, Doctor Oz.  Guy was a brilliant cardiac physician, apparently a surgical innovator, and surged to fame by talking medicine with Oprah in a no-holds-barred fashion (in other words, he was willing to be gross on TV).  The willing to be gross became more important than the teaching aspect, and when you couple that with Oz's attraction to certain types of pseudoscience, you spawn the caricature that he's become.  (I made a meme once of Dr. Oz with the caption: I used to be a real doctor, now I just play one on TV.)

 

Michio Kaku is a goofball.  Like most futurists, he cloaks absurdity in the patina of cutting edge science.  David Suzuki jumped the shark.  Once a popularizer of science, he has become a hero to the anti-GMO pitchfork crowd.

 

Back to Nye.  The issue of credibility is this.  Every time you get on the radio, or TV, or write a book (like the book in which he too made nonsense statements about transgenic technology), you put your credibility on the line.  Don't do stupid shit, and you get to hang on to your credibility.  Do stupid shit, and it starts to erode.


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#30 A Rebel and a Runner

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 10:38 PM

What sticks in my craw is how he ties Islamic terrorism to climate change. If drought causes religious violence I suspect we'd have seen a lot more of it down through history where and when drought has occurred.

Violent political movements are almost always fueled by privation.  Drought brings upon privation.
You have to be obtuse or historically illiterate not to see that connection.



#31 Greg

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 12:33 AM

I'll bite, but it's really only essentially what I've already said...but for those who have reading comprehension problems, I'll restate it.  I'll try and type slowly.

 

Here's something new first.  I know next to nothing of Bill Nye.  I am 51 years and I missed the whole thing he had on TV whenever that was.  I think I was just a little too old for his show which seems to have been directed at minors or maybe teens.  So I have no dog in the fight.  

 

Here's the old stuff.  Just because this show, which I've only seen one episode and I mentioned it was cringy, isn't perfect science doesn't mean it doesn't have value.  What I appreciate about his effort is that he's encouraging people to think more critically.  And there is nothing wrong with that.

 

When we have at least two millennia of superstitious nonsense guiding many/most societies, what Nye et al are up against is trying to backspin all the crazy into a new way of looking at the world.  I'll give Nye all the credit in the world for that even if his show, which again, was cringy.  He's making an effort to unfetter beliefs held for thousands of years that are fully entrenched in cultures around the world.  Anyone who is up to that daunting task gets kudos in my book.  



#32 Three Eyes

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 12:55 AM

Violent political movements are almost always fueled by privation.  Drought brings upon privation.
You have to be obtuse or historically illiterate not to see that connection.

 

You're jumping the gun without giving proper consideration to your opponent's argument. What you're saying is, of course, true but it's yet another straw man.

 

I didn't say wars are never fought over lack of resources! I said Islamic terrorists are committing violence for reasons other than climate change caused drought. Sorry, but, as Nye claims, disaffected Syrian youths killing people in the name of their religion because of a Syrian water shortage is not a valid reason for Islamic terrorism. What about all the terrorism that happens in Islamic majority countries that don't have water shortages? What about home-grown Muslim terrorists in Western countries who have access to plentiful food, water and jobs? Is climate change responsible for that terrorism too?! I hope you see the lunacy of his excuse-making now. There are far more valid connections to be made before you jump to climate change which is only an incidental cause at best. Call it western foreign policy, if you want. Call it the influence of the Koran. But don't call it climate change. When the water wars begin, you'll know it.


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#33 RushDoggie

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 01:17 AM

You're jumping the gun without giving proper consideration to your opponent's argument. What you're saying is, of course, true but it's yet another straw man.

 

I didn't say wars are never fought over lack of resources! I said Islamic terrorists are committing violence for reasons other than climate change caused drought. Sorry, but, as Nye claims, disaffected Syrian youths killing people in the name of their religion because of a Syrian water shortage is not a valid reason for Islamic terrorism. What about all the terrorism that happens in Islamic majority countries that don't have water shortages? What about home-grown Muslim terrorists in Western countries who have access to plentiful food, water and jobs? Is climate change responsible for that terrorism too?! I hope you see the lunacy of his excuse-making now. There are far more valid connections to be made before you jump to climate change which is only an incidental cause at best. Call it western foreign policy, if you want. Call it the influence of the Koran. But don't call it climate change. When the water wars begin, you'll know it.

 

 

If he is using it as an excuse, I agree with you. Ultimately, the one who does the action is responsible for the action, and the bullshit that is present in the literal interpretation of the Koran is the reason ultimately that Islamic terrorism happens. I am no fan of Islam or any religion.

 

That said, poor, directionless youth who feel like society has let them down, who have less education, these are the people who are most likely to buy what the jihadists and terrorists organizations are selling. Its not your fault, its all these assholes who don't do Islam (or don't do it correctly). Here, we care about you, we are here to help you etc etc. If young people really are being displaced as a result of climate change, I can see a thin connection.

 

Its like saying that poverty and a lack of role models has an effect on gang violence. Is poverty that makes a gang banger pull the trigger? no, but we would all agree that poverty has an effect on young kids joining gangs.


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#34 A Rebel and a Runner

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 01:34 AM

You're jumping the gun without giving proper consideration to your opponent's argument. What you're saying is, of course, true but it's yet another straw man.

 

I didn't say wars are never fought over lack of resources! I said Islamic terrorists are committing violence for reasons other than climate change caused drought. Sorry, but, as Nye claims, disaffected Syrian youths killing people in the name of their religion because of a Syrian water shortage is not a valid reason for Islamic terrorism. What about all the terrorism that happens in Islamic majority countries that don't have water shortages? What about home-grown Muslim terrorists in Western countries who have access to plentiful food, water and jobs? Is climate change responsible for that terrorism too?! I hope you see the lunacy of his excuse-making now. There are far more valid connections to be made before you jump to climate change which is only an incidental cause at best. Call it western foreign policy, if you want. Call it the influence of the Koran. But don't call it climate change. When the water wars begin, you'll know it.

Never said water was the only factor. Or that those other things don't factor in.
My point was that one of the ways terrorist groups get recruits is through miserable people who feel that they have nothing left to lose.  That can be the result of political turmoil, cultural alienation, and economic privation.  All of them are factors.

Nothing JUSTIFIES mass murder.  But certain factors can explain why people are willing to engage in it.



#35 Three Eyes

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 01:40 AM

If he is using it as an excuse, I agree with you. Ultimately, the one who does the action is responsible for the action, and the bullshit that is present in the literal interpretation of the Koran is the reason ultimately that Islamic terrorism happens. I am no fan of Islam or any religion.

 

That said, poor, directionless youth who feel like society has let them down, who have less education, these are the people who are most likely to buy what the jihadists and terrorists organizations are selling. Its not your fault, its all these assholes who don't do Islam (or don't do it correctly). Here, we care about you, we are here to help you etc etc. If young people really are being displaced as a result of climate change, I can see a thin connection.

 

Its like saying that poverty and a lack of role models has an effect on gang violence. Is poverty that makes a gang banger pull the trigger? no, but we would all agree that poverty has an effect on young kids joining gangs.

 

There's truth to what you're saying, of course, but in the case of Islam, it's not just its poorest followers who are killing themselves in the commission of terrorist acts. It's worth repeating here that the one who martyrs him/herself for Allah gets to skip the day of judgement. I think this is why we see a lot of petty criminals doing it.


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#36 Three Eyes

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 01:42 AM

Never said water was the only factor. Or that those other things don't factor in.
My point was that one of the ways terrorist groups get recruits is through miserable people who feel that they have nothing left to lose.  That can be the result of political turmoil, cultural alienation, and economic privation.  All of them are factors.

Nothing JUSTIFIES mass murder.  But certain factors can explain why people are willing to engage in it.

 

Think about the American dust bowl years.


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#37 A Rebel and a Runner

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 01:56 AM

The years that featured mass demonstrations that resulted in violent clashes with local authorities?
The mass exportation of Mexicans, including legal US citizens?
Yeah, you're right, we didn't do crazy things in the American Midwest because of the Dust Bowl.



#38 Three Eyes

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 02:16 AM

The years that featured mass demonstrations that resulted in violent clashes with local authorities?
The mass exportation of Mexicans, including legal US citizens?
Yeah, you're right, we didn't do crazy things in the American Midwest because of the Dust Bowl.

 

Another fucking straw man!! Those were secular reactions to an environmental catastrophe and they actually make my point. The era did not inspire entrenched religious strife like we've seen across the Middle East and beyond for decade after decade.   


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#39 A Rebel and a Runner

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 02:19 AM

Oh, that's where this discussion is going.  Back to the "Islam is worse than all other religions" business.  Well, I know where that road goes with you, so I'm not going to waste my time on this dance again.



#40 Three Eyes

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 02:34 AM

Oh, that's where this discussion is going.  Back to the "Islam is worse than all other religions" business.  Well, I know where that road goes with you, so I'm not going to waste my time on this dance again.

 

Finally, no straw man. lol.


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