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Some sort of terror attack in Westminster


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#201 A Rebel and a Runner

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 12:53 AM

I think this is a caricature.  It is hard to unleash total annihilation without unacceptable levels of the deaths of non-combatants.  This war will always be fought little by little, and targets will always be based on intelligence.  Neither the citizenry nor the leadership have the stomach for a massive invasion, or massive destruction by air or by missile.  

The way we prosecute the war already has unacceptable levels of the deaths of non-combatants as far as I'm concerned.  

It's a frustrating reality of this war, but it doesn't do any good to pretend that's not the reality.  There will be no sustained escalation.  There may be a further withdrawal, but don't count on that reducing the threats.  Even if we do stop banging on the hornets nest, the hornets will still be out for blood.

The point isn't to make the hornets less aggressive.  That's impossible.

The point is to make them less numerous. Make it harder to recruit. If most of your society hasn't had a negative experience with a Westerner, they likely won't give a shit about our heathen ways.
If a drone recently fucked up and bombed their cousin's wedding, though?  Yeah, they're more likely to listen to the bellicose narrative that puts us at "war."

The point is net results and end goals.
Does our military action and destabilization of the region cause a net reduction or increase in terrorist activity?  That's the question that ultimately matters. Given that the War on Terror has been going on for years, decades depending on when you formally begin it (overthrow of Mossadeq? Iranian Hostage Crisis? The Six Day War? Gulf War I? Kuwait? Afghanistan?) and things only seem to be getting worse, maybe, JUST MAYBE, it's worth considering a different approach to the problem. Because clearly, at best, the one we're using isn't working, and there are very real ways in which it might be making the problem worse (while also wasting the lives o young American soldiers and endangering civilians in the area)



#202 Moving Target

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 07:00 AM

The way we prosecute the war already has unacceptable levels of the deaths of non-combatants as far as I'm concerned.  

The point isn't to make the hornets less aggressive.  That's impossible.

The point is to make them less numerous. Make it harder to recruit. If most of your society hasn't had a negative experience with a Westerner, they likely won't give a shit about our heathen ways.
If a drone recently fucked up and bombed their cousin's wedding, though?  Yeah, they're more likely to listen to the bellicose narrative that puts us at "war."

The point is net results and end goals.
Does our military action and destabilization of the region cause a net reduction or increase in terrorist activity?  That's the question that ultimately matters. Given that the War on Terror has been going on for years, decades depending on when you formally begin it (overthrow of Mossadeq? Iranian Hostage Crisis? The Six Day War? Gulf War I? Kuwait? Afghanistan?) and things only seem to be getting worse, maybe, JUST MAYBE, it's worth considering a different approach to the problem. Because clearly, at best, the one we're using isn't working, and there are very real ways in which it might be making the problem worse (while also wasting the lives o young American soldiers and endangering civilians in the area)

 

 

The assassination of Anwar Sadat, I'd say.  That's when the Muslim Brotherhood and Wahabbists started to expand their agenda.



#203 Three Eyes

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 08:14 AM

The way we prosecute the war already

 

This article scratches its head over what could possibly be causing the increased civilian causalities and, by its end, conveniently and unsurprisingly speculates that it's the US military's fault while carefully failing to mention the well-documented fact that ISIS is currently using noncombatants as human shields in Mosul and also did so in the battle over Fallujah in 2016. 

 

“Isil’s depraved, cowardly strategy is to try to use the presence of civilian hostages to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from military action, essentially using tens of thousands of men, women and children as human shields,” Shamdasani said, using a different term for the group.

 

More

 

And before anyone tries to straw man me, no, I don't think the increase in civilian deaths is acceptable just because they're being used as human shields. I just think it's more honest to put all possible reasons on the table.


Hey there goes Alex. He's loaded with money. Wow he's really set himself up great.


#204 Moving Target

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 06:38 PM

This article scratches its head over what could possibly be causing the increased civilian causalities and, by its end, conveniently and unsurprisingly speculates that it's the US military's fault while carefully failing to mention the well-documented fact that ISIS is currently using noncombatants as human shields in Mosul and also did so in the battle over Fallujah in 2016. 
 

 
And before anyone tries to straw man me, no, I don't think the increase in civilian deaths is acceptable just because they're being used as human shields. I just think it's more honest to put all possible reasons on the table.


Causalities

Causalities

Causalities

#205 Three Eyes

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 11:16 PM

^^^ Thank you, MT, for making the world a better place one spelling correction at a time.

 

 

Pro-Tip: A lifetime of meaningful work awaits you in PewDiePie's comments sections.


Hey there goes Alex. He's loaded with money. Wow he's really set himself up great.


#206 chemistry1973

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 12:15 AM

I think this is a caricature. It is hard to unleash total annihilation without unacceptable levels of the deaths of non-combatants. This war will always be fought little by little, and targets will always be based on intelligence. Neither the citizenry nor the leadership have the stomach for a massive invasion, or massive destruction by air or by missile.

It's a frustrating reality of this war, but it doesn't do any good to pretend that's not the reality. There will be no sustained escalation. There may be a further withdrawal, but don't count on that reducing the threats. Even if we do stop banging on the hornets nest, the hornets will still be out for blood. You obviously don't believe a piecemeal war is any better than no war at all, and you may be right, but you may be wrong.


I'm being sarcastic.

#207 Moving Target

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 04:06 PM

^^^ Thank you, MT, for making the world a better place one spelling correction at a time.

 

It's a dirty job, but someone's got to do it.



#208 Valium

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 07:30 AM

We care a lot about the grammar and the punctuation and the words
We care a lot about the signs that hang on the street
We care a lot about the knowledge of all the boys and girls
We care a lot about you people 'cause we're out to save the world, yeah

It's a dirty job but someones gotta do it
Oh, it's a dirty job but someones gotta do it
Its a dirty job but someones gotta do it
Oh, it's a dirty job but someones gotta do it


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#209 Moving Target

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Posted 28 April 2017 - 02:00 PM

The Police have arrested another man in Westminster on suspicion of intent to commit acts of terror.

#210 GhostWriter

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Posted 28 April 2017 - 02:01 PM

The Police have arrested another man in Westminster on suspicion of intent to commit acts of terror.

 

Let me guess, a Quaker?


It is true, that a little philosophy inclineth man's mind to atheism; but depth in philosophy bringeth men's minds about to religion.

- Francis Bacon

 


#211 Three Eyes

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Posted 28 April 2017 - 05:19 PM

Let me guess, a Quaker?

 

I'm going to go with a Jain.


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Hey there goes Alex. He's loaded with money. Wow he's really set himself up great.


#212 GhostWriter

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 11:47 AM

Great conversation here with Ayaan Hirsi Ali. Brave woman indeed. I don't agree with everything she says but she certainly seems to have a firmer grasp of the nature of Islam than most of the Islamophiles here. A pretty interesting conversation.

 


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It is true, that a little philosophy inclineth man's mind to atheism; but depth in philosophy bringeth men's minds about to religion.

- Francis Bacon

 





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