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#61 Moving Target

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 07:14 AM

Despite our differences over Islam he was one of my favorite posters here.


He was extremely critical of all religion. He would not accept the singling out of Islam as an especially bad idea, because he felt such criticism was often motivated by racism and xenophobia instead of reason.



#62 Three Eyes

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 09:22 AM

He would not accept the singling out of Islam as an especially bad idea

 

Perhaps one day he'll realize he's wrong about that.


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#63 Always the Winner

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 06:33 PM

Yeah, for some reason Islam was his soft spot. I used to love to say crazy stuff just to tweak him, because for whatever reason, that worked.

Hey...where's Perry?


#64 Three Eyes

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 06:50 PM

The first time I heard him defend Islam I was like "Whaaahuuuh??? After 4 or 5 years of anti-Christian vitriol he's now defending Islam???"


Hey there goes Alex. He's loaded with money. Wow he's really set himself up great.


#65 Moving Target

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 09:58 AM

The first time I heard him defend Islam I was like "Whaaahuuuh??? After 4 or 5 years of anti-Christian vitriol he's now defending Islam???"

 

I don't think he defended Islam.  I think he defended the right of individuals to be Muslim, and not face persecution. I think he found Christianity and Islam equally stupid and anachronistic to a modern liberal democratic society.

 

Where I disagree with his view is this:  Christainity (except perhaps in dumb places like some African states and the American heartland) has come into cultural equilibrium with science, reason and Liberalism.  Some Muslims have also entered this equilibrium.  I have met many such people.  Other Muslims seems to see Islam as above history and culture, instead of part of those, and that's where I have a problem.  A lot of them see history as insh'Allah, pointless to try to change, which is why so many allow themsleves to be ruled by despots.



#66 Three Eyes

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 05:20 PM

I don't think he defended Islam.  I think he defended the right of individuals to be Muslim,

 

Well that's a straw man because, as far as I recall, that has generally not been the position of posters here. What I remember mostly was Slim being critical of the very idea that Islam was even being discussed in a negative light. He would not engage in such conversations but rather summarily dismiss them outright as bigoted, xenophobic, whatever, which is patently absurd.

 

and not face persecution.

 

How is persecution being defined here? Drawing Muhammad? Criticizing child marriage? Criticizing a culture of misogyny and intolerance of homosexuality? Pointing out bad ideas and backward customs is not persecution. Criticism notwithstanding, the truth of the matter is that western countries have bent over backwards to accommodate the practice of Islam.

 

 I think he found Christianity and Islam equally stupid and anachronistic to a modern liberal democratic society.

 

You can say the same about all religions. The point is that Islam is more violent and intolerant than other religions. There's a reason Hinduism, Buddhism, et al., are not dominating the world's conversation on terrorism.

 

Where I disagree with his view is this:  Christainity (except perhaps in dumb places like some African states and the American heartland) has come into cultural equilibrium with science, reason and Liberalism.  Some Muslims have also entered this equilibrium.  I have met many such people.  Other Muslims seems to see Islam as above history and culture, instead of part of those, and that's where I have a problem.  A lot of them see history as insh'Allah, pointless to try to change, which is why so many allow themsleves to be ruled by despots.

 

This is what I always argue, of course. There will always be moderates in any religion but Islam generally speaking is a tougher nut to crack because of the totalitarian nature of its text which is considered to be the final, inerrant word of Allah to humanity.


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#67 Moving Target

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 10:20 PM

Well that's a straw man because, as far as I recall, that has generally not been the position of posters here. What I remember mostly was Slim being critical of the very idea that Islam was even being discussed in a negative light. He would not engage in such conversations but rather summarily dismiss them outright as bigoted, xenophobic, whatever, which is patently absurd.
 
How is persecution being defined here? Drawing Muhammad? Criticizing child marriage? Criticizing a culture of misogyny and intolerance of homosexuality? Pointing out bad ideas and backward customs is not persecution. Criticism notwithstanding, the truth of the matter is that western countries have bent over backwards to accommodate the practice of Islam.
 
You can say the same about all religions. The point is that Islam is more violent and intolerant than other religions. There's a reason Hinduism, Buddhism, et al., are not dominating the world's conversation on terrorism.
 
This is what I always argue, of course. There will always be moderates in any religion but Islam generally speaking is a tougher nut to crack because of the totalitarian nature of its text which is considered to be the final, inerrant word of Allah to humanity.


Persecution means getting assaulted on the street, get hijab pulled off, verbal abuse, that sort of thing.

I don't think Islam on the whole is more violent that Buddhism or Hinduism - they have their violent radicals too. Islam is a religion, but within it, Islamism a political movement inimicable to Liberal democracy, jihadism a willingness to spread Islamism with violence.

#68 Three Eyes

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:11 PM

Persecution means getting assaulted on the street, get hijab pulled off, verbal abuse, that sort of thing.

I don't think Islam on the whole is more violent that Buddhism or Hinduism - they have their violent radicals too. Islam is a religion, but within it, Islamism a political movement inimicable to Liberal democracy, jihadism a willingness to spread Islamism with violence.

 

Maybe you'll listen to someone with a posh British accent.

 


Hey there goes Alex. He's loaded with money. Wow he's really set himself up great.


#69 Peter Griffin

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:25 PM

Every time this topic pops up in my "view new content" list I hear this song in my head

 

 

YES!  I'm not the only one!



#70 Moving Target

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 07:18 AM

This thread seems to have become derailed somewhat.

I still like living in Cornwall. But Spring has sprung and the population is about to double due to tourism. Expecting gridlock.

#71 Always the Winner

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 10:10 AM

Are they Muslim tourists?
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#72 SJS

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 02:32 PM

I don't think he defended Islam.  I think he defended the right of individuals to be Muslim, and not face persecution. I think he found Christianity and Islam equally stupid and anachronistic to a modern liberal democratic society.

 

Where I disagree with his view is this:  Christainity (except perhaps in dumb places like some African states and the American heartland) has come into cultural equilibrium with science, reason and Liberalism.  Some Muslims have also entered this equilibrium.  I have met many such people.  Other Muslims seems to see Islam as above history and culture, instead of part of those, and that's where I have a problem.  A lot of them see history as insh'Allah, pointless to try to change, which is why so many allow themsleves to be ruled by despots.

 

Cultural equilibrium.  Very nice turn of phrase, I'll have to steal that.


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LYqbjSn.jpg


#73 SJS

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 02:35 PM

Every time this thread comes up, I think of this:

 


LYqbjSn.jpg


#74 Moving Target

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 10:23 PM

Are they Muslim tourists?


A few, I guess. You even see one or two black people here. It's 99.5% whitebread, though.

#75 Moving Target

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 06:59 AM

Things continue on an upward trajectory. Mrs MT has been offered a job on reception with an optician in Truro and has just passed her driving test on the first attempt, 26 years after her first lesson. Now she can drive the Panzer, though it is a lot heavier than the hybrid eco-box she learned in.

Money had been getting a bit tight, but now I feel I can afford that five string Jazz Bass off eBay....

#76 Bones

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 05:47 PM

That is Great Moving target !  Im so happy for you and Mrs. MT.      Send us photos after you move. Your new place.


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