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WTF Apple? Could you BE any more counter-intuitive?

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#1 DarthLen

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Posted 02 April 2016 - 05:19 PM

Ok, so I recently got my hands on an old emac (circa 2005) that is actually a decent computing machine. 

- 1.25GHz PowerPC G4 w/ 1.5 GB DDR SDRAM

- MacOS X 10.5.8 (Darwin 9.8.0)

 

and the regular programs installed already (itunes, quicktime (not pro), looks like office 2008, garageband, etc.)

 

Now, I've been able to bomb around and figure out a few things, like where things are and how to tweak some settings, get it networked with the airport, etc., but where I am baffled, befuddled and bedazzlingly confounded is how to really install new apps or codecs. It seems that if I run a .dmg file, it does 'most' of the work of installing, but then somehow I think I also have to drag and drop something into the applications folder? HUH? Why doesn't the OS/installer do this automatically?

 

Just trying to update the codecs in QT has proven to be a nightmare in futility it seems. It's not like apple/macos gives you any messages when things don't work or go wrong, it just doesn't respond. 

 

So my real question(s) are:

 

1 - Where is a good place to start in terms of understanding HOW to make a mac actually DO what you want it to?

2 - Why does Apple make its software so bizarrely byzantine in setup/install/running? I'd like to try to understand the benefit, if there IS one, to why they do things this way, because right now, as a power PC user, I'm just shocked at how non-intuitive MacOS seems to be when it comes to actually getting things done...

 

Thanks... 



#2 Always the Winner

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Posted 02 April 2016 - 05:30 PM

10 print "Apple sucks"
20 go to 10
30 end
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Hey...where's Perry?


#3 Pariah Dawg

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Posted 02 April 2016 - 07:11 PM

Uninstall Windows.
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MAKE AMERICA GRATEFUL AGAIN

#4 Greg

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Posted 02 April 2016 - 07:38 PM

Install Linux.



#5 Xanadu590

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Posted 02 April 2016 - 08:04 PM

Ok, so I recently got my hands on an old emac (circa 2005) that is actually a decent computing machine. 

- 1.25GHz PowerPC G4 w/ 1.5 GB DDR SDRAM

- MacOS X 10.5.8 (Darwin 9.8.0)

 

i really hope you found that thing on the side of the road and if not, paid no more than $25 for it

but to answer the question, at least partially, Apple never intended for people to maintain their own computers, at least not in the sense you understand and are attempting

the way their system has always worked is, if you have a problem and it's under warranty, don't fix it yourself, bring it in.. if it's not under warranty, bring it in and bring some money

that's why error messages are hidden or if visible, are very vague.. it doesn't benefit them to make it easier for users to debug, repair or otherwise improve their own computers

(liek no, even configuring things beyond the wallpaper and system fonts is difficult)

and an Apple Store might deny support for that thing entirely since their current OS version only supports their newer x86-64-based computers

(you know, their IBM-compatible PC's that "aren't PC's" because they have an Apple logo on them)

there's also the possibility that the codecs you're trying to install aren't supported at all by that version of the OS

oh and i know there's no reason such a thing would be the case but with Apple it often is


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#6 DarthLen

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Posted 02 April 2016 - 08:29 PM

It was a gift; I gave the dude $10 for it once I figured out that it actually works and that I could ebay the sucker for $100 or so... 

 

But seriously, apple expects you to bring in the freakin' 50# box every time you want to install new software? I mean, I guess I have to do better in terms of determining if the 'software for mac' is going to work as yea, it's the unsupported G4 just prior to the intel switch... wottabitch. lol

 

Mostly, I just want to learn how to use it; take it apart, see if I can upgrade the ram to 2gb, the hard drive from 40gb to 80 or so... you know... fuck with it and make it better, faster stronger... :D

 

Any good emac manuals you know of or websites that specialize? Just looking to pick the experts' brains and move quickly... ;)

 

Thanks for the real answers, Xan!



#7 fenderjazz

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Posted 03 April 2016 - 09:35 PM

Codecs? Any no Kotex for a Mac. If it's not in the OS it ain't there.

Software? You just click on the cd and stfu. Apple didn't intend you to do that

#8 DarthLen

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 12:52 AM

damn you joe, I didn't want to laugh!!! (yes I did) :D



#9 Xanadu590

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 03:27 AM

it's the unsupported G4 just prior to the intel switch


i'm fairly certain this is 7/4nds of the problem, right here

current Apple software is compiled for x86-64 only -- it simply won't run on PowerPC chips

so you're not going to get it up to date if you want it to stay a "Mac Mac"

now, if you want it to be a Debian Mac, then yeah, have at it

i still think the PowerPC platform has its merits, myself

the architecture tends to handle tasks that involve a lot of number crunching very efficiently

as a result, even older PowerPC chips can process audio and video very quickly

but nowadays, GPU's can act as coprocessors in newer x86 boxen and thus, can be used to accelerate such tasks

so, i dunno.. if you're having fun poking at the thing, then by all means, keep it up smile2.gif


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#10 DarthLen

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 03:54 AM

Yea, I was actually quite impressed with the overall speed of the thing for being so old, but then even most of my PC's still date back to '07 or so in terms of processor, so I'll probably end up taking it down to its shell and learning some Debian & shit. You know me, I make this shit run gauntlets forever. The shit I used to make lowly 133mhz PCs do back in the day would blow most peeps' minds. I still see no reason for the constant upgrading. My main laptop is a quad-core w/ 8gb ram that I've had since '10, and it was bought out of a pawn shop, still works flawlessly (considering it's been smashed and stomped on - screen & kb replaced - that's actually impressive). It's amazing what just upgrading a few core components will do to stretch the life out of these suckers. :)

 

Yea, I still see no reason to continually pump revenue towards the sloppy, greedy bastids... ;)


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#11 grep

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 04:17 AM

In the old days, say pre 08, you kind of had to upgrade every 3-4 years. But right around then, memory got cheap, and so did multi-core processors. Since then, most machines/laptops produced in that timeframe (let's say the average 2008-2011 machine) are good enough for most folks. Browsing, photo management, word processing and home finance.  The only apps that really push the limits are games.

 

So yeah, for most of what we want to do - computers have been fast enough, for quite some time now.

 

My main rig is a 2011 era 4 amd core, with 16gb of ram.  Still fast enough - and this is with the overhead of running almost everything in virtual machines (to keep the base OS install clean). 

 

My laptop is a 2009 era 2 AMD core with 4gb ram. Still fast enough. My older desktop has LINUX on it... smokes.

 

All I'm saying is that hardware is really fast these days, like Len says.  And with a little work, it can be made to last a long time.

Heck, I have a 2001 era Compaq laptop with 256mb of RAM.... I'm using it for torrenting. It's had an old version of Fedora on it for 5 years, and just chugs away....


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#12 DarthLen

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 04:50 AM

Eggslactly, I still have one Ubuntu box that has been running like a champ ever since it was given to me as a gift for helping a co-worker fix up his newer laptop; it's a 1.4ghz Compaq with the RIMM RAM (512mb) that I've since maxed out with a vid out card, etc. Still plays & burns dvds and handles the internet/youtube with ease (although I'm beginning to not like Firefox that much any more, they seem to be slipping). 

 

Hell, the latest game I got into was the Legacy of the Void (Starcraft II) series, which plays just fine on the laptop and the other circa '08 pcs with 3.2ghz duo/dual core/4gb ram combos... For everything else, they scream. But then I'm sure we also know how to keep our systems clean and bug/bs-app free so our system doesn't get hogged processing endless clutter like they want us to... I swear, I still have to teach people the simple steps of just paying attention to WTF they are installing because almost EVERY software program out there tries to bundle up with bogus shit... It's amazing what one finds in sys-trays, startup, etc. that just have no business being there...


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#13 grep

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 05:09 AM

You gotta be patient with non tech people man. I know it's hard. My wife has learned over the years how to avoid crap ware and virus downloads. I haven't done a rebuild for her in 3 years at least... But I used to get frustrated fixing stuff every couple of months. My kid? Thank god she does everything on a phone... Because her comp was always stuck on ransom ware..... Ugh.

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#14 DarthLen

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 06:12 AM

You know what's difficult? Trying to explain to the non-tech why their machine is running like a sinking ship taking on water when they just want to 1) deny 2) lie & 3) argue the merits of the bogus shit they installed mainly because they 'paid' for it. That's difficult to do without coming across as condescending as hell sometimes (attitude usually begets attitude, IYKWIM)...

 

Stop paying for AV software! It's throwing money away. Just use M$ Security Essentials combined with Antimalwarebytes and you've just protected yourself 99.9% (with a minor overhead cost) which is the best you can do if you are an ACTIVE online person chasing shit down willy-nilly and installing shit same...



#15 Xanadu590

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 04:24 PM

You know what's difficult? Trying to explain to the non-tech why their machine is running like a sinking ship taking on water when they just want to 1) deny 2) lie & 3) argue the merits of the bogus shit they installed mainly because they 'paid' for it.

 

ah my personal favorite: gamers who thought they could download a "performance upgrade"

you know the shitware.. "makes your PC something-percent faster by cleaning up stuff! even activates imaginary accelerating chips that don't exist! only $19.95 + whatever we charge in the future! as an added bonus, you'll get your identity stolen!"

they always deny the shit when you find it.. because they know they got royally screwed at that point and don't wanna admit it

i miss the days when gamers were almost all nerds, and knew that some "PC cleaner" software wasn't going to make World of Warcraft less laggy, rather, what they need is a better GPU

i wholly blame Apple and Google for the increase in tech-unsavvy gamers and internet users, since if it weren't for them, there wouldn't be millions of people who 'discovered the internet' on their phones


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#16 grep

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Posted 06 April 2016 - 10:14 PM



i miss the days when gamers were almost all nerds, and knew that some "PC cleaner" software wasn't going to make World of Warcraft Wolfeinstein 3D less laggy, rather, what they need is a better GPU


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#17 MrSkeptic

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Posted 07 April 2016 - 04:24 AM



i miss the days when gamers were almost all nerds, and knew that some "PC cleaner" software wasn't going to make World of Warcraft Wolfeinstein 3D less laggy, rather, what they need is a better GPU

8 bit FTW.


They said I could be anything, so I became a disappointment.

 

 


#18 fenderjazz

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Posted 07 April 2016 - 01:38 PM



i wholly blame Apple and Google for the increase in tech-unsavvy gamers and internet users, since if it weren't for them, there wouldn't be millions of people who 'discovered the internet' on their phones

 

That's like blaming AOL in the 90s for douchebaggery on the internet.  Oh wait.  Nevermind   :rolleyes:


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#19 Xanadu590

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Posted 10 April 2016 - 01:47 PM

That's like blaming AOL in the 90s for douchebaggery on the internet.  Oh wait.  Nevermind   :rolleyes:

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