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Cruz and Clinton take Iowa


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#21 A Rebel and a Runner

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 11:35 PM

No. Only Reagan was too old for office. Get it right.

It's funny when I hear Clinton supporters, of all people, comment about Sanders being too old, since HillaryBot will be tied for oldest elected president if she wins.
Trump, by the way, would also be the oldest elected president if he were to win, but that's obviously not happening.


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labente deinde paulatim disciplina velut desidentes primo mores sequatur animo, deinde ut magis magisque lapsi sint, tum ire coeperint praecipites, donec ad haec tempora quibus nec vitia nostra nec remedia pati possumus perventum est.

 

First our declining morals slid, bit by bit, and then our very national spirit.  Then the collapse became greater and greater, and our principles began to go, until at last, it has come to this age, in which we can bear neither our crimes nor the cure for them.

 
 

#22 Feverish Flux

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 01:22 AM

The only one on the GOP side that I can stomach is Rand Paul.  Mostly sticks to his principles, is articulate, and I think would be a nice counterbalancing voice to the long history of government expansion and deficit spending.  Of course it could also result in even more horrific gridlock and infighting. :)  Not that he really has a chance though.

 

Oddly enough I could probably live with Jeb! as well.  Somewhat moderate and pragmatic, and non-douchey.  Substantial executive experience (not just a famous name).  But obviously he lacks the charisma to get noticed on a stage full of maniacal blowhards.  He's not asshole enough to fight dirty.  I also can't help but sweat the idea of a Bush family dynasty.

 

As for Rubio, I don't know if it's just because he's pandering to lunatic fringe conservatives, but his incessant chickenhawkery makes me nauseous.  Sure Marco, let's quintuple the military and kill all our enemies. Sounds great kid.  

 

As for the Dems, kudos to Sanders for making a show of it, but he's got no chance in the long run.  Even if he won Iowa and NH he'd almost certainly not carry many of the remaining states.  But similar to my thoughts about Rand Paul, I appreciate the voice Sanders brings to the debate.  With the widespread, truly grassroots support that he built, the establishment would be wise to incorporate some elements into their platform (I think Hillary already has, really).

 

As for ol' HRC, I don't think the country would fall off the rails with her in charge. Again, I think she's actually pretty pragmatic and even somewhat moderate.  I'd expect something roughly like the Obama Administration, but with less rancorous opposition (not saying much i guess -- how could it be worse?).  For those claiming they'd flee the country if she's elected, what do you think is going to happen??  Or are you just a sexist!! :P

 


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#23 MrSkeptic

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 04:23 AM

  Or are you just a sexist!! :P

 

 

There it is. The first of many and that was predicted (not by me) a long time ago.  ;)


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#24 RushDoggie

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 05:29 AM

...but Cruz isn't the theocrat everyone makes him out to be in practice.

 

Ted Cruz is a member of a strict fundamentalist branch of the Southern Baptist Church with deep roots in Dominionist theology (Dominionism being a theocratic ideology which seeks to implement a nation governed by conservative Christians ruling over society based on an understanding of biblical law.) His father is a noted Dominionist. Its reasonable to be concerned about this.


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#25 Greg

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 06:03 AM

^^^ Thank you.

 

This is some real comedy, eh GW?  Endless hilarity!



#26 A Rebel and a Runner

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 08:02 AM

There it is. The first of many and that was predicted (not by me) a long time ago.  ;)

Here's an interesting take on how much gender factors into the two Dem candidates support bases.
And how age factors much more.

Women And The Generational Divide Between Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders

Updated February 1, 20163:42 PM ET
Published February 1, 201612:53 PM ET
 Danielle Kurtzleben - square 2015
DANIELLE KURTZLEBEN
Twitter
Bernie Sanders takes a selfie with a woman who attended a rally in Greensboro, N.C.
Bernie Sanders takes a selfie with a woman who attended a rally in Greensboro, N.C.
Rob Brown/AP
Stephanie Hundley is an enthusiastic Bernie Sanders supporter. The 28-year-old from Waterloo is also enthusiastic about the fact that she's not going to vote for Hillary Clinton just because she's a woman.
 
"I don't think she's the woman to be representative of women," Hundley said. She ticked off a list of Clinton criticisms: the "damn emails," the "flip-flops," her vote to go to war in Iraq. Citing Sanders' record of supporting women's rights, Hundley said his overall views embody hers more than Clinton's do. "It's weird that an old, white guy would represent women better than an actual woman."
 
Many millennial women, like Hundley, want to deal a repeat upset to Clinton in the Hawkeye State. Eight years ago, Clinton lost the women's vote in Iowa to another candidate promising change in Washington. Entrance polls showed that the only group who favored her were the oldest women — those over 65. A similar pattern could emerge again this year. Iowa women do prefer Clinton, according to the final Des Moines Register poll before the Iowa caucuses, but that support is strongest among women over 45.
 
The split has exposed a fault line around feminism in America, between women who grew up in an era when they weren't allowed to wear pants to work, for example — and young women who have never known the kind of discrimination and stereotypes their mothers faced.
 
A recent poll even found that young women supported Sanders in greater numbers than young men. A January online survey of young voters from USA Today and Rock the Vote showed that women under 35 supported Sanders by an almost 20-point margin, compared to men's 4-point margin.
 
Dueling Identities: 'Young' Vs. 'Woman'
 
Bernie Sanders greets the audience at a fundraising event and rally.i
Bernie Sanders greets the audience at a fundraising event and rally.
Rick Loomis/LA Times via Getty Images
Katherine Hillicker is a freshman at Michigan State who came down to Iowa to canvass for Sanders. She sees near-universal support for Sanders among their peers at Michigan State, and she thinks she knows why.
 
Young people, she said, "have grown up in this situation where the economy has been crap, and we're going to college, and it's costing a ton of money." She and her friend, fellow Michigan State student Mackenzie Pollick, say they think Sanders appeals more to young people on those economic issues.
 
As for gender? It was an afterthought for them. "I think you need to care more about the issues than the gender," Hillicker said.
 
Pollick added, "As much as I'd love a woman to be president, it doesn't affect my views much."
 
The age gap is stark. A recent Quinnipiac poll found that Sanders bests Clinton among 18- to 44-year-olds, 78 percent to 21 percent. But support for Clinton seems to grow with age: 53 percent of 45- to 64-year-olds chose her, along with 71 percent of people 65 and older.
 
Both Clinton and Sanders have made a point of appealing to both women, on issues of reproductive rights and equal pay, as well as young voters, on student debt. However, the Sanders campaign's promises of sweeping change seems to have helped him win over Iowa's youngest voters, and he's doing everything he can to capitalize on that popularity.
 
In addition to hitting young people's economic worries hard in his speeches, the Sanders campaign has also been working to mobilize the youngest Iowa voters on caucus night. In its "Go Home for Bernie" push, the campaign is driving young people away from college towns, like Ames and Iowa City, to their smaller Iowa hometowns, to better spread his support all over the state. That's important in a caucus state that won't report raw vote, but shares of delegates.
 
'There's Going Go Be A Lot More Elections In Our Lifetime'
 
Some young voters say it would be nice to have the first female president — but that's about as excited as they get.
 
"We're still young," said Olivia Vogel, an Iowa State student, "and there's going to be a lot more elections in our lifetime, that right now I wouldn't choose just because she's a woman."
 
A woman wears a campaign button in the vein of Rosie the Riveter to a Hillary Clinton event in Davenport, Iowa.i
A woman wears a campaign button in the vein of Rosie the Riveter to a Hillary Clinton event in Davenport, Iowa.
Andrew Harnik/AP
Vogel attended a Clinton rally in Ames on Saturday, but isn't supporting a candidate yet.
 
"I feel like I grew up in a pretty equitable society where I think men and women are based fairly," said Vogel's friend Julia Zappa, a sophomore at the University of St. Thomas in St. Paul. Though she was at the Clinton event, she said she supports Republican Chris Christie. "I think for a younger generation, we don't need to rush for a woman to become president, because I feel like it'll happen, so I don't want to rush."
 
The long string of presidential elections ahead of them is full of the possibility — or even the probability, as Zappa sees it — of a female president. That means other issues feel much more pressing right now.
 
"I don't think voting for a woman is particularly novel for them," said Dianne Bystrom, director of the Carrie Chapman Catt Center for Women and Politics at Iowa State University. "The fact that the nation elected its first African-American candidate in 2008, it's kind of taken the edge out of those narrow parameters of who can be president."
 
If that's true, the gender card — which Clinton is playing more forcefully this year than in 2008 — may be less effective now for some young voters.
 
But their minds may change as they age.
 
"I think younger women will face some discrimination in their lives, but when they're young, they probably haven't," Bystrom said. Older women, meanwhile, "feel that it's about time to have a woman president," she added.
 
Of course, the reasons anyone supports Clinton (or Sanders) are far more nuanced than voting for a gender. Many women — old or young, supporting Clinton or Sanders — say that gender isn't a factor at all in choosing a candidate.
 
And some Sanders-supporting women say they considered the draw of caucusing for a woman, but it ultimately couldn't sway them. Likewise, for many Clinton supporters, who are drawn in by her gender, it's simply one of many reasons.
 
However, it is a reason that amps up their enthusiasm.
 
"It's about time we caught up with the rest of the civilized world," said Maureen Ekeland of West Des Moines, who attended a Clinton speech in Ames with her daughter and granddaughter. All three are Clinton supporters.
 
"It's don't think it's the only thing, and it might not be the main thing. But absolutely — it would be an amazing thing," said Jennifer Ruggle of Waukee, Ekeland's daughter.
 
For Older Women, The Time For A Female President Is Now
 
A woman at a Clinton event wears a campaign button as she stands in the audience during a rally for the candidate.i
A woman at a Clinton event wears a campaign button as she stands in the audience during a rally for the candidate.
Andrew Harnik/AP
At the other end of the spectrum from the college students attending the event, who feel they have a lifetime to put a woman in the White House, there are the women who say time is running out. One Clinton volunteer said those women motivate her.
 
"There are so many children that need to grow up in a situation where it's normal to have a female president," said Kim Frederick of Houston. Frederick told NPR's Tamara Keith the story of an elderly woman she met at a Clinton rally in 2008, when Frederick was also a volunteer.
 
"And she said, 'Please, I'm 94 years old,' " Frederick said. "I can't get out there and volunteer. Can you please make this happen? And I promised her I would. And it didn't happen in 2008, and she's probably not around anymore, but there's another 94-year-old woman in a wheelchair that I have to do that for this time. And we're going to make it happen."
 
Gender Matters In The General
 
Importantly, it's not that supporting Sanders means rejecting Clinton. Many female Sanders supporters who spoke to NPR said they'd support Clinton as a general-election candidate (and many of her supporters say the same of Sanders).
 
A woman touches the cheek of Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton at a rally in Des Moines, Iowa.i
A woman touches the cheek of Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton at a rally in Des Moines, Iowa.
Andrew Harnik/AP
And general elections make it clear that it doesn't make sense to talk about the "woman voter," as the Atlantic reported in 2012. While it's true that women tended to support Obama in the past two presidential elections, there are factors beyond gender at work here. Single and minority women have tended to support Obama, for example, while white and married women went for Mitt Romney.
 
Once the Democratic candidate is chosen, that's when the battle for women's votes will get even more important, Bystrom pointed out.
 
"I think gender always factors into elections and typically for the Democrats," she said. "For a Democrat to be president, there has to be a large number of women" who turn out.

labente deinde paulatim disciplina velut desidentes primo mores sequatur animo, deinde ut magis magisque lapsi sint, tum ire coeperint praecipites, donec ad haec tempora quibus nec vitia nostra nec remedia pati possumus perventum est.

 

First our declining morals slid, bit by bit, and then our very national spirit.  Then the collapse became greater and greater, and our principles began to go, until at last, it has come to this age, in which we can bear neither our crimes nor the cure for them.

 
 

#27 GhostWriter

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 01:37 PM

^^^ Thank you.

 

This is some real comedy, eh GW?  Endless hilarity!

 

Which type of tinfoil do you use to make your hats? I'm officially putting out a "buy" recommendation on their stock.

 

If RD had included this line from the two pages she cut and pasted her "chicken little" view of Ted Cruz from, "The term Dominion Theology is applied primarily to a very few groups of Protestants in the United States," then perhaps you'd realize how senseless your little conspiracy theory is that Ted Cruz wants to take away your pornhub and make you go to church on Sundays.

 

To copy and paste from one of the same pages: "Lisa Miller of Newsweek writes that "'dominionism' is the paranoid mot du jour" (referring to the French for "word of the day") and that "certain journalists use 'dominionist' the way some folks on Fox News use the word sharia. Its strangeness scares people. Without history or context, the word creates a siege mentality in which 'we' need to guard against 'them'.""  LOL..."paranoid word of the day". Sorry. Still laughing.

 

Rushdoony's Christian Reconstructionism was probably the most popular of these tiny movements in the 70's and he was considered on the fringe by even the most conservative of Christian groups. It's never been taken seriously. It's never had any traction in the main.

 

Ted Cruz happens to be the brightest and most articulate of the candidates on either side; he also just happens to have some semblance of a religious belief. Your gov't is set up with checks and balances that would prevent against even the craziest of despots from hatching some maniacal plan on the American people. But I guess as long as you think the sky is falling we should all be afraid as well. Pass the tinfoil.


It is true, that a little philosophy inclineth man's mind to atheism; but depth in philosophy bringeth men's minds about to religion.

- Francis Bacon

 


#28 fenderjazz

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 03:12 PM

I'd never worry about things like that from a strict constitutionalist.   He's not going to make it up.  He's not going to issue illegal executive orders.  He's going to follow the constitution.  If Obama were a dominionist, run!


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#29 fenderjazz

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 03:54 PM

And check out sticker-eating man in the background!

 


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#30 SJS

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 04:40 PM

No. Only Reagan was too old for office. Get it right.

 

I think I know why Sanders appeals to millennials.  He's one himself.  Graduated high school in 1002 AD or something like that.


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#31 Three Eyes

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 05:12 PM

I can't believe Trump lost Iowa what with the Palin bump and all...

 


Hey there goes Alex. He's loaded with money. Wow he's really set himself up great.


#32 fenderjazz

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 06:25 PM

I can't believe Trump lost Iowa what with the Palin bump and all...

 

Video is lol-worthy, but to answer the key question, Trump is not an evangelical.  He's not going to win against people like Ted Cruz or others.  He'll beat Hillary in Iowa, but he's not going to beat Ted Cruz.  Santorum and Huckabee cleaned up in Iowa only to lose in more moderate places the last two election cycles.


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#33 Three Eyes

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 09:28 PM

^^^ I'm well aware of that. I was being sarcastic re Palin.


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Hey there goes Alex. He's loaded with money. Wow he's really set himself up great.


#34 A Rebel and a Runner

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 09:36 PM

The ACTUAL endorsement video was just as funny. Especially Trump's face.

Also...

But, because I feel like showing how the Dems are being made fun of (with Palin still in the mix), I'll add..


labente deinde paulatim disciplina velut desidentes primo mores sequatur animo, deinde ut magis magisque lapsi sint, tum ire coeperint praecipites, donec ad haec tempora quibus nec vitia nostra nec remedia pati possumus perventum est.

 

First our declining morals slid, bit by bit, and then our very national spirit.  Then the collapse became greater and greater, and our principles began to go, until at last, it has come to this age, in which we can bear neither our crimes nor the cure for them.

 
 

#35 RushDoggie

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 03:40 AM

Which type of tinfoil do you use to make your hats? I'm officially putting out a "buy" recommendation on their stock.

 

If RD had included this line from the two pages she cut and pasted her "chicken little" view of Ted Cruz from, "The term Dominion Theology is applied primarily to a very few groups of Protestants in the United States," then perhaps you'd realize how senseless your little conspiracy theory is that Ted Cruz wants to take away your pornhub and make you go to church on Sundays.

 

FYI, I paraphrased, after reading about Rafael Cruz on Tuesday. Why did I read about Rafael Cruz on Tuesday? Because he said something comparing his son to Jesus because he was speaking the truth. Sounded a little wacky to me. So, I read more and found gems like this:

 

You need to understand, it’s just like evolution. You know most Americans have their head in the sand about evolution. I’ve met so many Christians that tell me ‘evolution is a scientific fact.’ Baloney! I am a scientist, there is nothing scientific about evolution. But you know something, Karl Marx said it, ‘I can use the teachings of Darwin to promote communism.’ Why? Because communism, or call it socialism if you think communism is too hard a word, necessitates for government to be your god and for government to be your god they need to destroy the concept of God. That’s why communism and evolution go hand and hand. Evolution is one of the strongest tools of Marxism because if they can convince you that you came from a monkey, it’s much easier to convince you that God does not exist.

 

Neat, eh? Another time he said
 

“Socialism requires that government becomes your god,” Cruz said. “That’s why they have to destroy the concept of God. They have to destroy all loyalties except loyalty to government. That’s what’s behind homosexual marriage.”

SO not equality, or non discriminatory tax issues and parenting and the ability to choose who you would have as you family or make POA, but socialism.

 

It is your right, of course, to laugh about the use of Dominionism, though it is well defined by many sources that are not using it to "scare" anyone.  But just in case you think the moniker used to describe Cruz's father is hyperbole, the man wrote a book called:

 

A Time for Action: Empowering the Faithful to Reclaim America. The publisher’s blurb says its message is that “people of faith should actively participate in the political process in order to combat the debilitating and deceptive progressive mantra that there should be a separation of church and state.”

 

In August 2012  event, he preached that Christian true believers are "anointed" by God to "take dominion" of the world in "every area: society, education, government, and economics."

 

So....

 

Maybe you would say that a candidates father is not a reflection of the candidate, that any of us can have wacky parents with wacky ideas. Except Cruz has actively encouraged his father to campaign for him. He makes sanctioned public statements.

 

 

to be the brightest and most articulate of the candidates on either side; he also just happens to have some semblance of a religious belief. Your gov't is set up with checks and balances that would prevent against even the craziest of despots from hatching some maniacal plan on the American people. But I guess as long as you think the sky is falling we should all be afraid as well. Pass the tinfoil.

 

He is undoubtedly a bright guy, I agree. Well educated, smart and I have noticed he does his best to take the high road when Trump and others hit below the belt. I doubt very much a Cruz Presidency would involve a maniacal plan of overthrow.

 

Instead a Cruz Presidency would pepper any open Supreme Court position with guys like Scalia and Thomas, and he is openly anti LBGT. He has accepted much money and support from some truly scary people who support very radical ideals, and those folks would likely wield influence and power. In addition, he has a long history of obstructionist behavior which as POTUS could make things really ugly.

 

And he pretty clearly has a whole lot more than a "semblance of religious belief." He has made it a key part of his campaign, is a Southern Baptist (a noted conservative Christian sect) and gets his whackjob preacher father to shill for him.

 

I suppose someone like you with your limited worldview and evangelical beliefs finds him normal, trust me when I say the rest of us do not.


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#36 Greg

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 04:19 AM

When someone is in such a habit of defending the indefensible, it's easy to overlook all manner of crazy.  Dominionism is a real thing whether anyone likes it or not.  No tinfoil here.  It's modern-day nonsense at its finest...



#37 Hemisfears

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 04:41 AM

Ted Cruz is a member of a strict fundamentalist branch of the Southern Baptist Church with deep roots in Dominionist theology (Dominionism being a theocratic ideology which seeks to implement a nation governed by conservative Christians ruling over society based on an understanding of biblical law.) His father is a noted Dominionist. Its reasonable to be concerned about this.

I'd be more concerned with radical Islam and a 'president' that makes it easier for them to succeed in their plans.



#38 Hemisfears

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 04:47 AM

  Dominionism is a real thing whether anyone likes it or not.  No tinfoil here.  It's modern-day nonsense at its finest...

So is radical Islam. Your 'president' ignores that.



#39 Hemisfears

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 04:50 AM

He has accepted much money and support from some truly scary people who support very radical ideals, and those folks would likely wield influence and power. In addition, he has a long history of obstructionist behavior which as POTUS could make things really ugly.

You mean George Soros funding the Obama administration?

How about this....http://www.westernjo...eft-in-america/



#40 RushDoggie

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 05:05 AM

You mean George Soros funding the Obama administration?

How about this....http://www.westernjo...eft-in-america/

 

Vander Plaats is way worse.

 

ETA: thats not exactly a reputable or unbiased source there, man.


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