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Transgenderism


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Poll: Transgenderism (14 member(s) have cast votes)

Is it really possible to transition from one gender to another?

  1. Yes (8 votes [57.14%])

    Percentage of vote: 57.14%

  2. No (6 votes [42.86%])

    Percentage of vote: 42.86%

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#41 RushDoggie

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Posted 16 January 2016 - 04:57 AM

There are a couple stories out there where parents, noticing that little 4 year old Steven likes pink and plays with dolls, dresses their child as a girl, grows the kids hair long and starts transitioning their kid before he can tie his shoes.

 

I think that is a potential problem with the more mainstreaming of this issue...no reason to expect a kid to be anything but a kid.


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#42 RushDoggie

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Posted 16 January 2016 - 04:59 AM

we should treat those people with kindness and sympathy, not cruelty or false hope.

 

Curious as to what would define treating someone with false hope?


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#43 grep

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Posted 16 January 2016 - 05:06 AM

Bollocks to that.

NuRush themselves should be treated with complete and utter contempt. To the ghetto with them!

Fixed.


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#44 MrSkeptic

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Posted 16 January 2016 - 06:53 AM

I wanted to transition to millionaire last Wednesday but the numbers didn't line up. Fuckers.


They said I could be anything, so I became a disappointment.

 

 


#45 Slim

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Posted 16 January 2016 - 09:54 AM

Thus, the only one qualified to decide is one is a he or she or what have you, regardless of what they were brought up as is the individual...I'm not really sure what makes that an issue or "too PC."

 

It really doesn't require a "qualification"; there are a number of simple tests. For example if you can work out whether you had a penis or not at birth, then in nearly every case you're a "he". It's not a decision you have to make; not a choice.



#46 Hemisfears

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Posted 16 January 2016 - 02:00 PM

Three young men from North Africa sought to stone two transgender women in the western German city of Dortmund on Sunday.

According to a report on Friday on television station SAT1.NRW, the men attacked Yasmine und Elisa, two transgender women, near the city’s main train station.

“Within seconds we were tossed around…and they took stones from a gravel bed on the corner and threw them at us,” said Elisa.

A police car at the train station appeared as the stoning attack unfolded and arrested the men.

The German media as a general rule do not disclose the last names of victims to protect their privacy. The three men are between 16 and 18 years-old and are known to the authorities because of theft and assault arrests.

The Dortmund police official Kim-Ben Freigang said the suspects told the police that “such persons must be stoned.“

German media reported that one suspect said "You whores must be stoned."

Yasmine installed a security camera at her residence where she lives with Elisa after the attacks.  “That was barbaric what they did. They are barbarians,” Yasmine said.

She added that she could not believe that such an act of shamelessness occurred. “In 2016, in Germany with stoning!” 

According to the SATI.NRW report, Yasmine said it was the first time in 30 years she felt unsafe as a transgender woman.

The three men, according to Yasmine and Elisa, propositioned them. After the men realized that Yasmine and Elisa are transgender women, the men launched their assault with stones.

Stoning people to death is a penalty used in Muslim-majority countries.

In November, a criminal court in Iran’s northern province of Gilan sentenced a woman to be executed by stoning for alleged complicity in the murder of her husband Arash Babaieepour Tabrizinejad.

The stoning penalty of the woman, who was only identified by the initials “A.Kh,” was first reported on the Persian-language Iranian website LAHIG.

According to the LAHIG report, the court imposed the stoning penalty on the woman along with lashings and a 25-year prison sentence. The criminal court in the city of Rasht in Gilan issued the sentence.

Lethal homophobia is widespread in the Arab world and Iran. A 2008 British Wikileaks dispatch noted that the Islamic Republic of Iran executed “between 4,000 and 6,000 gays and lesbians” since the Islamic revolution in 1979.

The Islamic State in Syria and Iraq has murdered dozens of gays by tossing the men off buildings. Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Yemen and Qatar, to name just some of the most anti-gay countries, persecute LGBTs with the death penalty and imprisonment.

 

http://www.jpost.com...man-city-441695



#47 RushDoggie

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Posted 16 January 2016 - 03:40 PM

It really doesn't require a "qualification"; there are a number of simple tests. For example if you can work out whether you had a penis or not at birth, then in nearly every case you're a "he". It's not a decision you have to make; not a choice.

 

So its only the presence of a penis that makes you a man.

 

What of that penis is underdeveloped? What if there is also an ovary inside you?

 

Thats wat I am getting at. We define someone as a gender at birth based on some physical characteristics that do not show us a lot of biology. If your definition of a "man" is that he has a penis, then that definition should also hold if said penis is removed.

 

And that doesn't make sense in some contexts (is child whose penis was removed child whose penis grows into a large clitoris in a vulva).


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#48 Slim

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Posted 16 January 2016 - 05:44 PM

So its only the presence of a penis that makes you a man.

 

No .. it's your sex, your gender. Having a penis is just part of it. Being able to produce sperm, grow a beard, having a particular chromosome set and so on. These will also help you to understand, if you're really having difficulty with it. It's not a choice.

 

But tell me, since you think the biological factors are so unimportant in this, why is it that so many transgender people do? Having your penis removed and artificial breasts surgically implanted is a lot of trouble to go to if it's not really about that, isn't it? Why can't you be defiantly female with a beard, a penis, a hairy chest and the rest of it if you're convinced you already are a woman? Why do you need to pretend to be a different sex if you're already a different gender?

 

Doesn't that rather play into the hands of those terribly narrow-minded people like myself who think it's more about biology than a state of mind?



#49 RushDoggie

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Posted 17 January 2016 - 12:18 AM

No .. it's your sex, your gender. Having a penis is just part of it. Being able to produce sperm, grow a beard, having a particular chromosome set and so on. These will also help you to understand, if you're really having difficulty with it. It's not a choice.

 

But tell me, since you think the biological factors are so unimportant in this, why is it that so many transgender people do? Having your penis removed and artificial breasts surgically implanted is a lot of trouble to go to if it's not really about that, isn't it? Why can't you be defiantly female with a beard, a penis, a hairy chest and the rest of it if you're convinced you already are a woman? Why do you need to pretend to be a different sex if you're already a different gender?

 

Doesn't that rather play into the hands of those terribly narrow-minded people like myself who think it's more about biology than a state of mind?

 

I am actually arguing that biology is very significant, but not always visible.

 

Androgen insensitive boys, for example, often look like a girl on the outside but have internal testes instead of ovaries (girls who produce sperm, as per your example). There are other conditions where a child has ambiguous or significantly underdeveloped genitalia (internal and external).

 

If you meet someone you knew as a woman who now wants to be referred to and identify as male, how do you know that he just changed his mind or that he has some kind of hormonal abnormality that results in his body actually being more male than female? In that case id he "transitioning?" or is he just making his outside match his internal biology? Is every trans person that way? Certainly no. But we also know so little still about things like this, and who are we to decide whats biology or a decision?

 

And, fwiw, I never called you narrow minded.


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#50 chemistry1973

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Posted 17 January 2016 - 01:06 AM

I think it's like this:

If you are willing to slice open your penis and have it formed into a facsimile of lady-parts, there MAY BE a couple marbles loose.
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#51 Slim

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Posted 17 January 2016 - 02:52 PM

I am actually arguing that biology is very significant, but not always visible.

 

Androgen insensitive boys, for example, often look like a girl on the outside but have internal testes instead of ovaries (girls who produce sperm, as per your example). There are other conditions where a child has ambiguous or significantly underdeveloped genitalia (internal and external).

 

If you meet someone you knew as a woman who now wants to be referred to and identify as male, how do you know that he just changed his mind or that he has some kind of hormonal abnormality that results in his body actually being more male than female? In that case id he "transitioning?" or is he just making his outside match his internal biology? Is every trans person that way? Certainly no. But we also know so little still about things like this, and who are we to decide whats biology or a decision?

 

And, fwiw, I never called you narrow minded.

 

Well - you continually appeal to fringe cases of people with extraordinary personal anatomy or physiology issues, but these are not typical of the "transgender" condition. Do you agree at least that people who don't suffer from a chromosomal disorder, or hermaphrodism should be referred to using language according to their sex ("he" for males, "she" for females; actual males and females I mean, not the fantasy variety)?



#52 A Rebel and a Runner

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Posted 17 January 2016 - 03:06 PM

Well - you continually appeal to fringe cases of people with extraordinary personal anatomy or physiology issues, but these are not typical of the "transgender" condition. Do you agree at least that people who don't suffer from a chromosomal disorder, or hermaphrodism should be referred to using language according to their sex ("he" for males, "she" for females; actual males and females I mean, not the fantasy variety)?

I can't speak for her, but I can't agree to that.

It seems silly that I should ask a person before addressing them if I can check their undercarriage to make sure I use the right term based on my own sensibilities. If the person tells me they are a particular gender, then that's the gender I'll use. It's not hurting anything.


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#53 RushDoggie

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Posted 17 January 2016 - 04:19 PM

I can't speak for her, but I can't agree to that.

It seems silly that I should ask a person before addressing them if I can check their undercarriage to make sure I use the right term based on my own sensibilities. If the person tells me they are a particular gender, then that's the gender I'll use. It's not hurting anything.

 

Yep pretty much.

 

Because (as per my original post) why is it my business? 

 

And despite your claims that only a "fringe" of transgender people have a biological issue that makes them trans, I would argue that you can't possibly know that, and that our genders are strongly encouraged and assigned as children without our consent.  If we have a biological reason (invisible as it is by most standards) that alters our gender identity, and we are raised as one gender before we hit sexual maturity, no wonder a person might feel like they have to "transition" back to what they are.

 

And even if not, so fucking what.


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#54 chemistry1973

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Posted 17 January 2016 - 07:04 PM

I can't speak for her, but I can't agree to that.
It seems silly that I should ask a person before addressing them if I can check their undercarriage to make sure I use the right term based on my own sensibilities. If the person tells me they are a particular gender, then that's the gender I'll use. It's not hurting anything.


You're speaking of social/genteel ways of addressing someone. It doesn't address the truth of the matter.
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#55 grep

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Posted 17 January 2016 - 07:17 PM

If I ever find myself in the situation I'd just use the person's name in place of he or she until I figure out the right term to use.

 

I do it all the time at work when I don't know if someone is a he or a she. For example, someone new emails me with a problem. There are lots of Indian, Asian, African where I just can't tell. When I discuss with my team, I will say "this person" | "XXXname" needs help. Rather than make the mistake of he or she.

 

Slightly different problem, but I'm already in the mindset.... that's how i'd handle it socially, anyway.


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#56 A Rebel and a Runner

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Posted 18 January 2016 - 04:23 AM

You're speaking of social/genteel ways of addressing someone. It doesn't address the truth of the matter.

"Truth" is a strong word to use, considering we don't know everything that factors into a person's sex, and gender is a social construct only tangentially related to actual sex.


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#57 RushDoggie

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Posted 18 January 2016 - 06:41 AM

"Truth" is a strong word to use, considering we don't know everything that factors into a person's sex, and gender is a social construct only tangentially related to actual sex.

 

Which summarizes my multiple wordy posts very succinctly.


“Music is probably the only real magic I have encountered in my life. It's pure and it's real. It moves, it heals.” - Tom Petty

 

 


#58 Slim

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Posted 18 January 2016 - 03:18 PM

I can't speak for her, but I can't agree to that.

It seems silly that I should ask a person before addressing them if I can check their undercarriage to make sure I use the right term based on my own sensibilities. If the person tells me they are a particular gender, then that's the gender I'll use. It's not hurting anything.

 

Whether it "hurts" to use the wrong word or term isn't quite my point, which is simply that it's incorrect. I'll use the actual gender rather than the preferred, wishful thinking version - it's better to get it right, I feel.



#59 Slim

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Posted 18 January 2016 - 03:23 PM

"Truth" is a strong word to use, considering we don't know everything that factors into a person's sex, and gender is a social construct only tangentially related to actual sex.

 

That's clearly quite wrong. Gender has a meaning that even in the most hysterically PC definition can only be defined by sex. Otherwise what does it even mean at all?

 

Many people who imagine that their gender conflicts with their sex realise this only too well, otherwise they wouldn't undergo a surgeon's knife to emulate a different sex (not gender).


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#60 GhostWriter

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Posted 18 January 2016 - 05:34 PM

No to derail things but where does the line get drawn? Is there a line? I mean, what if a 52 year old man identifies and lives as a 6 year old girl? Transgender AND Transage? And what about the Otherkin; those that identify as animals? Do we just accept every manner of self-identity as if it's ok? As if there is not something mentally wrong with people?

 

We are too neutered as a society now to call out anyone on their nonsense and that leaves the marginalized and outcast to come up with new "identities" to show others they really are that special little snowflake, unlike all the rest.


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