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Transgenderism


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Poll: Transgenderism (14 member(s) have cast votes)

Is it really possible to transition from one gender to another?

  1. Yes (8 votes [57.14%])

    Percentage of vote: 57.14%

  2. No (6 votes [42.86%])

    Percentage of vote: 42.86%

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#21 Hemisfears

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 11:48 AM

I think there are some creatures on this planet that have the ability to change their sex..

Just not humans.

#22 Moving Target

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 01:23 PM

I think there are some creatures on this planet that have the ability to change their sex..

Just not humans.

 

 

Muslims?



#23 Moving Target

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 01:26 PM

TG prisoners present the prison staff with unique challenges. If a TG woman-to-man conversion commits a crime, where do you put him - in a male or female jail?  If he is pre-op, where?  If he is post-op, where then?



#24 Feverish Flux

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 01:48 PM

Slim, you're treating gender and sex as interchangeable terms (see survey question versus initial post).  I think that's where you're going wrong. 


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#25 Slim

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 04:18 PM

Yes, I do think of them more or less as interchangeable. Not convinced I've gone wrong, there.



#26 RushDoggie

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 04:41 PM

Yes, I do think of them more or less as interchangeable. Not convinced I've gone wrong, there.

 

In your head, is someone born with opposing but identically developed sex organs male or female?


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#27 chemistry1973

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 05:32 PM

In your head, is someone born with opposing but identically developed sex organs male or female?


Obviously he's talking about an adult or young adult that transitions from one gender to the other. He's not talking about hermaphrodism
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#28 Always the Winner

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 06:39 PM

I wonder what effect traumatic life events have on these people. I grew up with a kid who was as typical boy as you could imagine up through junior high. Athletic, academically gifted and a pretty good guitarist for a 14-yr old. Then his folks split up and it just totally fucked him up. I couldn't believe the difference which seemed to happen overnight. He wound up graduating a year late, and the last I saw him was in summer '87, jamming with a band next a pizza place I was at.

About a year ago I found him on Facebook. He is now Jennifer and from what I've learned, has made the full surgical jump to be in female. I checked his friend list and there wasn't one single person from our childhood, so I didn't send the request. I figured he was trying to separate the two phases of his/her life. I think back to the divorce in '83 and wonder what that triggered.

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#29 chemistry1973

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 06:50 PM

I wonder what effect traumatic life events have on these people. I grew up with a kid who was as typical boy as you could imagine up through junior high. Athletic, academically gifted and a pretty good guitarist for a 14-yr old. Then his folks split up and it just totally fucked him up. I couldn't believe the difference which seemed to happen overnight. He wound up graduating a year late, and the last I saw him was in summer '87, jamming with a band next a pizza place I was at.

About a year ago I found him on Facebook. He is now Jennifer and from what I've learned, has made the full surgical jump to be in female. I checked his friend list and there wasn't one single person from our childhood, so I didn't send the request. I figured he was trying to separate the two phases of his/her life. I think back to the divorce in '83 and wonder what that triggered.

 

I wonder if Jennifer feels normal since her operation.  I try to avoid being cynical when talking about this stuff, but does an operation like that somehow psychologically change someone for the better?  It must require years of therapy, if not ongoing for the rest of her life.

 

How does one finally "feel" like a woman or man?  I wonder if much of the drive that comes with changing sexes is imaginary - one's perception of what it's like to be another sex entirely.



#30 Slim

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 09:01 PM

In your head, is someone born with opposing but identically developed sex organs male or female?

 

I think that's a special case - and I suspect extremely rare within what's known as transgenderism. To answer the question for the sake of interest though, I think I'd say both.



#31 Slim

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 09:05 PM

I wonder if Jennifer feels normal since her operation.  I try to avoid being cynical when talking about this stuff, but does an operation like that somehow psychologically change someone for the better?  It must require years of therapy, if not ongoing for the rest of her life.

 

Good question. In the interview I referred to at the top of the thread, the guy who was now living as a woman (not sure if he'd had an operation or not) spoke of it as like emerging into light, he was clearly very happy about it and it seemed to have removed a lot of internal conflict for him. Good for him, in those circumstances I think he's done the right thing and I don't begrudge him his dress, lipstick, fake breasts and the rest of it for a moment. I'm not going to pretend he's a woman though or refer to him as "she" just for the sake of his feelings.



#32 SJS

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 09:09 PM

More or less in agreement with the OP.  I'd add this:

 

1.  In the last century (into the late 1990s at least), the public sentiment was cruel towards people who were transgendered or who felt like they were in the wrong body.  This cruelty exacerbated the pain experienced by such individuals.

 

2.  In this century, the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction.  Public opinion seems to be coalescing on the fantasy that switching genders is as simple as a few surgical snips, a few hormones, and having the right attitude.  The sad part is that too many people get their hopes up, have a procedure, and still feel miserable.

 

Bottom line, some people are born with a very confused gender, and we should treat those people with kindness and sympathy, not cruelty or false hope.


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#33 grep

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 10:31 PM

I'll go a step further - we should all learn to treat everyone equally.

 

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#34 grep

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 10:33 PM

wrong thread.


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#35 nickslikk2112

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 10:59 PM

I'll go a step further - we should all learn to treat everyone equally.

Bollocks to that.

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#36 chemistry1973

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 11:14 PM

There are a couple stories out there where parents, noticing that little 4 year old Steven likes pink and plays with dolls, dresses their child as a girl, grows the kids hair long and starts transitioning their kid before he can tie his shoes.



#37 Slim

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Posted 16 January 2016 - 12:05 AM

There's a famous one where an unfortunate child has his penis removed in a medical accident, and his parents attempt to bring him up as a girl. Just googled it:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...health-11814300

 

If nothing else it shows that you can't necessarily "transition" someone to a different gender just by treating them like one. Brenda had the same problem that transgender people face, except that the gender he strongly identified with was actually genuine in his case.



#38 grep

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Posted 16 January 2016 - 12:18 AM

There are a couple stories out there where parents, noticing that little 4 year old Steven likes pink and plays with dolls, dresses their child as a girl, grows the kids hair long and starts transitioning their kid before he can tie his shoes.

 

That's weird. Lot's of kids both boys and girls explore both sides before they settle in. It's part of figuring out who they are.... I guess I can understand a parent directing, but they probably shouldn't.


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#39 RushDoggie

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Posted 16 January 2016 - 04:54 AM

Obviously he's talking about an adult or young adult that transitions from one gender to the other. He's not talking about hermaphrodism

 

He said:

 

"Pretending that terms like man, woman, female, male and so on have an optional definition is sheer politically correct inanity."

 

followed by an admission that gender and sex are the same to him.

 

These are superficial and limited definitions. I think transgenderism is far too nuanced and has too many unknowns to simplify it to that degree.

 

Thus, the only one qualified to decide is one is a he or she or what have you, regardless of what they were brought up as is the individual...I'm not really sure what makes that an issue or "too PC."


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#40 RushDoggie

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Posted 16 January 2016 - 04:55 AM

There's a famous one where an unfortunate child has his penis removed in a medical accident, and his parents attempt to bring him up as a girl. Just googled it:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...health-11814300

 

If nothing else it shows that you can't necessarily "transition" someone to a different gender just by treating them like one. Brenda had the same problem that transgender people face, except that the gender he strongly identified with was actually genuine in his case.

 

 

No, I can't transition someone for them they have to do it for themselves.


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