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My Vocal Covers Series (Iron Maiden with others to follow)

Iron Maiden Metal NWOBHM Killers Piece of Mind Final Frontier El Dorado Flight of Icarus Mike Vieira Invader

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#21 Valium

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Posted 28 January 2015 - 12:11 PM

No offense meant but you sound too clean for metal or maiden, smoke more cigarettes !!

I think you would do better with Queensryche or maybe Scorpions.

Do 'running free' next. Or if you want to try somthing different 'Limbo' or 'Pretty paracetamol' from Fischer Z



#22 Valium

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Posted 28 January 2015 - 12:27 PM

I mean how hard can it be when even a six year old can do it ?



#23 Slut Puppy

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Posted 28 January 2015 - 02:51 PM

No offense meant but you sound too clean for metal or maiden, smoke more cigarettes !!

 

If you go listen to the MotH albums you'll hear that rock and metal grit much of the time. Thing is, I'm working on safely adding that to a good voice, which can last 2 hours night after night. It's super-easy to get vocal distortion from constricting your throat, but it's wrong in the sense that it is damaging and can't last. The list of rock/metal singers with short careers because they damaged their voices and/or who can't deliver the goods live is far longer than that of those who last many years and sound great live. Even Bruce was headed for disaster in the 80's. Listen to any live release or boot and you'll hear he is very "husky" and flat a LOT. In the 90's he begins to improve and now he sounds better than ever. He safely developed sustainable technique. He also happens to be considerably less gruff and edgy live than on albums, but fans accept it because he's Bruce, because it frankly sounds nice and because the other elements of the show supply much of the theatrics the audience desires.

Also, as said, my Flight video is also a bit on the tame side, even for me. Listening to Bruce on Live After Death just now, he is actually pretty clean on this song (and also flat at certain spots). He does belt more, so I'll work on that. Maybe I'll post an "after" vid after I've rehearsed Flight some more.

Thanks for the feedback.


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#24 OldRUSHfan

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Posted 28 January 2015 - 05:26 PM

If you go listen to the MotH albums you'll hear that rock and metal grit much of the time. Thing is, I'm working on safely adding that to a good voice, which can last 2 hours night after night. It's super-easy to get vocal distortion from constricting your throat, but it's wrong in the sense that it is damaging and can't last. The list of rock/metal singers with short careers because they damaged their voices and/or who can't deliver the goods live is far longer than that of those who last many years and sound great live. Even Bruce was headed for disaster in the 80's. Listen to any live release or boot and you'll hear he is very "husky" and flat a LOT. In the 90's he begins to improve and now he sounds better than ever. He safely developed sustainable technique. He also happens to be considerably less gruff and edgy live than on albums, but fans accept it because he's Bruce, because it frankly sounds nice and because the other elements of the show supply much of the theatrics the audience desires.

Also, as said, the Flight video is also a bit on the tame side, even for me. Listening to Bruce on Live After Death just now, he is actually pretty clean on this song (and also flat at certain spots). He does belt more, so I'll work on that. Maybe I'll post an "after" vid after I've rehearsed Flight some more.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

That is the same thing my BF used to say and do.  At first he sang in a Top 40 band that also did originals, next band was the same, then in the late 80's joined a 'Thrash metal' band,  that had John (Jon5 from Cybotron) in it called 'Typhoid Mary' [til they found out some band in Jersey or sumpin had the same name...why didn't they find it in the copyright list?] and he had a pretty 'clean' voice but could rip it when needed....he told me after ten years he'd learned how,,,anyways, your voice sounds very much like his did, and congrats on keeping the learning going!  That's what counts! :2  thumbs up:


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#25 smoog

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 02:37 AM

Start smoking.

#26 Pariah Dawg

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 05:20 AM

maiden.gif


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#27 Three Eyes

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 06:22 AM

^^^ Get that man a cup of coffee!!


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#28 stoopid

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 02:55 PM

Here is Flight of Icarus:

 

 

https://soundcloud.c...den-vocal-cover

 

I'm not familiar with the original (only know of a few maiden songs), but it sounds like you're struggling a bit here.  Like you said, practice makes perfect and it's certainly reasonable to think you'll eventually nail it.


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#29 Slut Puppy

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 03:29 PM

Bruce live in Dortmund 1983:

 

Studio:

 

Live link is one of three officially released video versions of the song and I picked the best one, in terms of vocal performance. Bruce has more "power" and a thicker tone than I do and uses (way too much IMO) vibrato (thank God he got over that). He sounds husky or hoarse here (but not as bad as 1984!), shies away from many of the studio notes, lets the audience sing certain lines and is very, very flat (and sometimes sharp too, like his aim at some of those soaring vibrato notes was a little wild) on certain attempted notes. In fairness he was singing fairly often, out in conditions, after being on a tour bus and such, probably couldn't always hear himself well, is doing stage theatrics and all that.

 

Studio link is to reference the written notes of the song. To my ears it is a little less bombastic, a little less vibrato-laden, not husky or hoarse and not pitchy.

For most of the live set I deal with, there are more recent examples of Bruce doing whatever song very well (Maiden videos from Brave New World Tour onward), so I use those live versions as my reference. For Flight I try to stick pretty close to studio, since I don't think he sang it particularly well on any official or boot shows.


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#30 Slut Puppy

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Posted 30 January 2015 - 08:41 PM

Here is El Dorado:

 

 

https://soundcloud.c...den-vocal-cover

 

This might be it for a while. Probably gonna record one at a time from now on and take more care to make a "youtube ready" product. :D

Might be fun to bare in mind that a few months ago I couldn't even hit the prechorus or chorus notes and was singing about a 1/5 under the real melodies (and still trashed my voice before the end of the track. Also let's assume some minor timing issues are because I couldn't hear the backing track perfectly well... :P

 

Oh, please "like" the youtube and/or soundcloud songs (if you do, in fact like them...)


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#31 Slut Puppy

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Posted 30 January 2015 - 08:45 PM

Studio and live tracks for Stoo's reference:

 

 


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#32 chemistry1973

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Posted 30 January 2015 - 09:36 PM

Are you running through these, or are you in performance mode here?

It appears you are in head voice in much of these songs. You can work your voice big time that way. A lot of what looks like emoting from Dickinson could be him working his chest voice - it takes work, but air in the lungs really helps project and get those high notes without killing yourself.
Geddys screams are gone because he used so much head voice back in the day. Roth too.

Being a rock singer in a metal band is by far the most difficult job. You sound good man! Get out in front of people as much as you can and sing. Karaoke is great practice for practicing crowd work and projecting.

If you have a keyboard warm up by singing scales. A warm voice will let you hit those notes more easily and give you a shit ton of confidence.

Again good stuff.
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#33 stoopid

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Posted 31 January 2015 - 02:47 PM

Mike, your El Dorado was real good (listened to both original/live versions as well).  I also like this Maiden track.  Has less predictable metal elements and some legit edge.

 

Chemistry could be right about 'head' versus 'chest' voice.  That might explain what I hear as straining in your voice, and not enough guts in the lower register (more spoken) lyrics.  I still hear, and likely your band mates hear, a lot of promise as well as realized proficiency.   :)  I applaud you for challenging and pushing yourself outside the comfort zone!


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#34 Slut Puppy

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Posted 31 January 2015 - 04:26 PM

chem/stoo: I'll respond to these comments as best I can. chem, not entirely sure of all your meaning, so if you're ziggin and I'm zaggin please forgive.

Here is my take on head vs. chest voice, as I've been taught by instructors who handle pros, american idol winners, etc (guys who know about singing):

Everyone, male and female, has two basic "registers," based on where certain cavities or open space inside our upper bodies are located, which are available to bounce sound around in before exiting your body through your mouth. These are the chest and head registers. The chest register is easy to employ. It has one basic resonation chamber - the chest. You certainly do blend a little throat (larangial) in there, but it is easy because that is how you talk and it's second nature.

The head gets a lot trickier. Now you're dealing with a few different chambers and tapping in to them takes time, training, practice, patience, trial and error.

There is also a nominal third register called mixed voice. Really this is just tapping in to both chest and head resonance simultaneously.

So, about damaging the voice. Guys do it two common ways: trying to sing in chest voice too high (called "pulling chest") and trying to create distortion by tensing their throat. Other frequent methods of vocal damage include: poor breathing technique (dries the cords out), too much drinking and smoking (dries the cords out, among other things), lack of sleep and lack of practice (weak muscles) then trying something too challenging (which results in straining for notes, getting distortion improperly, yadda yadda).

About use of head and chest voice relative to my tone and grit and such: let me use the analogy of a guitar (and the guitarist). You have six strings, which we'll think of as different registers, since you get a lighter kind of tone as you play from the thicker to the thinner strings. For purposes of a perfect analogy the guitar would only have two strings, but whateva. Obviously the thickest string is going to be where you get the beefiest tone and some people are really gonna dig that tone. Some players are going to frequently chug rhythms down on it's first few frets and such. But that one string is only going to carry you so far up the potential note range of the guitar. You can play single string up to what, E3? Then you could start bending that string, if you wanted, and get a few more notes. Now that is a good example of pulling chest. You're at the maximum capability of that beefy register, but you're hell-bent on using it and strain for some notes your karaoke buddies are waiting for. If the guitarist keeps bending the string it will break and so will the voice. Fortunately, both can learn to utilize the next register. Guitarists learn to scale across all the strings and vocalists learn to tap in to those cavities up in the head. The better you do this, you can actually get a pretty substantial tone, with some edge. But it's always going to be lighter than chest tone. When a great guitarist is shredding on that thinnest e string, going meedly meedly meedly, no body complains that the tone isn't beefy enough (assuming the guitar is well-built with balanced tone). And that leads to the next point. Let's say our guitarist is really great at chugging on that low string and is ready for 11-gauge strings. But needs some work up top, so opts for 8-gauge there. Now there is potentially going to be a big difference in tone, from the bottom of the run to the top. So, partly where I'm at is building up power up top and in order to build one good voice all together, I have to lighten up a bit on bombast down low. A rule of thumb is you don't start so aggressive and thick down low that it's impossible to maintain a good, unbroken, unified voice from the extreme low your capable of to your extreme high.

Let's talk Bruce for a moment. If you listen to his Number of the Beast through Fear of the Dark tour recordings, you're going to hear a substantially thicker-toned Bruce than Brave New World through present. You're also going to hear huskiness, flatness and sharpness, note dodging - just a tired sound. Present Bruce has thinned out, but it still suits the music fine. He's very accurate, the tone is pleasant (that is subjective - to these ears there are more pleasant tones in the world and there are those who hate his voice, I'm sure, but it works for me.) I no longer cringe listening to Maiden shows, due to the singer sounding like he's getting beaten up in an alley. He's a strat now, not a les paul, but it's sustainable.

My opinion on Geddy is not that he over-utilized head range. Head range, if sung properly is pretty relaxing, pretty easy on the cords, takes less air (smaller opening). My opinion is that Geddy stopped practicing enough, drinks too much and sang too much challenging stuff under those conditions. I would bet "Big Money" that if he dedicated himself to vocal training again he could get very close to his former power and control. No, not the 2112 buzzsaw. That actually sounds like unhealthy distortion to me. But Permanent Waves edginess and control, yes.

Yes, Stoo, it is fair-enough to say my bandmates hear potential. To build up my voice the way I want (and think is best) should take 2 - 3 years. In the meantime it's a work in progress. But, it is also good enough for them, for now. Good enough, also, that some money-bags types who have hung out at rehearsals for months finally gave the ok for management to start booking better gigs and building sets. To have this guy who'd watch all our performances with folded arms, week after week, finally come up to me and say, "damn, you have improved incredibly in a very short period of time. You're sounding very good and we're ready for some real shows" felt amazing.

Chem, these three recordings are just my personal run-through. Band practice can be infrequent and I get bored of practicing Maiden songs, so I thought recording some rehearsal and getting a sense for what it really sounds and looks like would be of benefit and just more interesting to me, to give a good incentive to practice as much as I need to. I would say a bolder approach comes out on stage. If I over-do the aggression a bit and go a little hoarse, I can just lighten up practice for a few days and recover. That isn't how I want to personally rehearse though. That's a good way to encounter physical setbacks or permanent damage. Creating healthy distortion is pretty tricky. I'm workin on it, but it isn't my focus. I don't want to end up like Hetfield, who sounds like a mess.


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#35 Mission Position

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Posted 04 February 2015 - 05:21 PM

Mike, this is really cool to see.  You were already very good, but you are pushing yourself to learn how to master it, and I think that's awesome.  Keep at it; very cool!  :)


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#36 Slut Puppy

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Posted 05 February 2015 - 10:05 PM

Thanks, Jer. While part of my journey, at this point, is to increase my abilities, this all started as a desire to become a competent live singer. It's one thing to do what you need to do in the privacy of your own home or studio, where you can do a million takes, rest your voice a few days and all that. I encourage any primarily home recording artist to dip their toe in live waters now and then!

Hopefully it will make my studio recordings stronger or at least different in a good way in the near future.


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#37 2220020

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Posted 05 February 2015 - 10:41 PM

Thanks, Jer. While part of my journey, at this point, is to increase my abilities, this all started as a desire to become a competent live singer. It's one thing to do what you need to do in the privacy of your own home or studio, where you can do a million takes, rest your voice a few days and all that. I encourage any primarily home recording artist to dip their toe in live waters now and then!
Hopefully it will make my studio recordings stronger or at least different in a good way in the near future.

I have no doubt that they will. You've already got the raw talent, and once you get some substantial experience live singing under your belt, you'll be a monster vocalist. :)
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#38 stoopid

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Posted 06 February 2015 - 11:56 AM

I encourage any primarily home recording artist to dip their toe in live waters now and then!

 

Been there, done that.  (not as a vocalist)  I agree with you, in that performing live is an entirely different beast.  I was fine, no stage fright or issues remembering the songs, etc.  But it's the reason why I sought out and embraced home recording in the first place, it's a drag.


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#39 Slut Puppy

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Posted 06 February 2015 - 02:57 PM

It's a matter of perspective, for sure. Back in the day, live was mostly what I did, except for practice. Mostly church music, but a few small concerts, here and there (mostly guitar, drums or other percussion). Then, mostly because I worked so damn much, I found myself in a period where home recording was mostly it. The random, very occasional performance. The thing about home recording that primarily disagrees with me is the lack of connection to the "audience." It seems like even best friends can't be bothered, more often than not, to give a "like" or a few words. At least live you get instant connection and feedback, for better or worse!

Yes, rehearsing and gigging with a band is quite often a pain in the ass.


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#40 stoopid

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 01:16 PM

It seems like even best friends can't be bothered, more often than not, to give a "like" or a few words.

 

Wrong target audience!  ;)


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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Iron Maiden, Metal, NWOBHM, Killers, Piece of Mind, Final Frontier, El Dorado, Flight of Icarus, Mike Vieira, Invader

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