Jump to content


Photo

Porcupine Tree / Steven Wilson


  • Please log in to reply
733 replies to this topic

#721 chemistry1973

chemistry1973

    Advanced Member

  • Peeps*
  • PipPipPip
  • 5,172 posts

Posted 03 January 2019 - 02:42 PM

Steven Wilson is cool but he’s a technical guy who struggles to strike the right chord.

Not that I don’t dig his music, because there are a couple songs I really really like.

He’s trying to be Peter Gabriel - establish himself as an outside thinking prog guy who then embraces an art-pop aesthetic.

Sure Gabriel contrived his image but there was no one before him. And he, along with Tears for Fears, wrote straight up smashes - that were THE pop songs of a generation.

I don’t think Wilson possesses those pop sensibilities. So when the music isn’t sad, it ends up being a bit boring.

#722 chemistry1973

chemistry1973

    Advanced Member

  • Peeps*
  • PipPipPip
  • 5,172 posts

Posted 03 January 2019 - 02:53 PM

Prog only works within pop - it’s a counterpoint. I think he realizes that and is trying to carve a new path. Nothing but respect for that.

But he needs a collaborator- an Eno, or Lanois. And he needs to stop making it so obvious he’s trying to get bigger. To get “bigger” you need hit songs. I enjoyed the latest album but some of the material was a bit too on the nose.

He should write a straight up pop hit, then all of this would make more sense.

Rush deserve credit for giving no fucks and writing something like Roll the Bones - despite my feelings on it, it pushed the album to 2xplatinum status because it got the band on the radio.

#723 Three Eyes

Three Eyes

    Advanced Member

  • Peeps*
  • PipPipPip
  • 10,625 posts

Posted 03 January 2019 - 02:55 PM

^^^ Yeah Chem. Rush too had a great instinct for unique yet also tight, accessible songs. Even at their proggiest, they had that. And they too had their own versions of "smashes." 


Hey there goes Alex. He's loaded with money. Wow he's really set himself up great.


#724 Three Eyes

Three Eyes

    Advanced Member

  • Peeps*
  • PipPipPip
  • 10,625 posts

Posted 03 January 2019 - 03:01 PM

Then again, SW/PT fans seem to love what they hear so... 


Hey there goes Alex. He's loaded with money. Wow he's really set himself up great.


#725 baldiepete

baldiepete

    Advanced Member

  • Peeps*
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,773 posts
  • LocationEdinburgh, Scotland

Posted 03 January 2019 - 04:40 PM

SW tried to write a pop hit (Permanating) on the last album but he was trying too hard and felt he had to justify its existence. In concert he would spend longer explaining the song than it took to play. I’m not sure he’s got it in him to write a pure pop song but he’d better just writing what comes naturally and if a melodic pop song comes out of that then that’s great but I don’t think he’ll ever achieve it by forcing it.

He has always been reluctant to embrace the “prog” label and for a long time denied that his music was prog. Certainly the really early PT wasn’t, the first PT album is more like psychedelic pop in the vein of Piper At The Gates Of Dawn and the next few were more electronic space rock than what is commonly thought of as prog.

#726 Three Eyes

Three Eyes

    Advanced Member

  • Peeps*
  • PipPipPip
  • 10,625 posts

Posted 03 January 2019 - 05:30 PM

SW tried to write a pop hit (Permanating) on the last album but he was trying too hard and felt he had to justify its existence. In concert he would spend longer explaining the song than it took to play. I’m not sure he’s got it in him to write a pure pop song but he’d better just writing what comes naturally and if a melodic pop song comes out of that then that’s great but I don’t think he’ll ever achieve it by forcing it.

He has always been reluctant to embrace the “prog” label and for a long time denied that his music was prog. Certainly the really early PT wasn’t, the first PT album is more like psychedelic pop in the vein of Piper At The Gates Of Dawn and the next few were more electronic space rock than what is commonly thought of as prog.

 

I knew the first few PT albums were different than straight up prog or prog metal. I should take a deeper dive into that stuff. 

 

It would be next to impossible for an outsider like Wilson to score a big break out hit in the anti-creative environment of top 40 music today. There was a time when huge genre shifts would occur on the charts every few years and many artists and those who produced them would just dive into the new style and create a lot of excellent new songs to add to the pop and rock canon. Looks like those days are over. Emerging genres used to give artists a palate to work with and a sense of direction, I would say. Sure there was a lot of trend riding but a lot of great music got made too. I think these genres initially developed through live music scenes that emerged in one city or another due to players just jamming around with each other and looking to create something new, mixed with influences, and jumping from one band to another, spreading these new ideas in the process.

 

I think live music as a creative scene is kind of dead these days. Less musicians just sit down and jam with each other in person and bounce ideas off of each other. Everyone's a narcissist now, Everyone has their faces in their phones. You can even see this in Wilson's reluctance to work with other musician's musical ideas (if what he said in that interview above is any indication).


Hey there goes Alex. He's loaded with money. Wow he's really set himself up great.


#727 chemistry1973

chemistry1973

    Advanced Member

  • Peeps*
  • PipPipPip
  • 5,172 posts

Posted 03 January 2019 - 05:32 PM

Honestly his earlier stuff with PT bites chunks from Radiohead and adding a very busy rhythm section.

Permanating is a cool track but perhaps he should’ve called it Hold On. Or not. But you have to market pop songs properly.

#728 baldiepete

baldiepete

    Advanced Member

  • Peeps*
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,773 posts
  • LocationEdinburgh, Scotland

Posted 03 January 2019 - 05:59 PM

Honestly his earlier stuff with PT bites chunks from Radiohead and adding very busy rhythm section.

Permanating is a cool track but perhaps he should’ve called it Hold On. Or not. But you have to market pop songs properly.


Not sure about the Radiohead comparison for early PT. The first couple of PT albums predate Pablo Honey, the first Radiohead album and it would be a stretch to describe the ambient krautrock of the next albums as Radiohead influenced.

#729 baldiepete

baldiepete

    Advanced Member

  • Peeps*
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,773 posts
  • LocationEdinburgh, Scotland

Posted 03 January 2019 - 05:59 PM

Honestly his earlier stuff with PT bites chunks from Radiohead and adding very busy rhythm section.

Permanating is a cool track but perhaps he should’ve called it Hold On. Or not. But you have to market pop songs properly.


Not sure about the Radiohead comparison for early PT. The first couple of PT albums predate Pablo Honey, the first Radiohead album and it would be a stretch to describe the ambient krautrock of the next albums as Radiohead influenced.

#730 chemistry1973

chemistry1973

    Advanced Member

  • Peeps*
  • PipPipPip
  • 5,172 posts

Posted 03 January 2019 - 06:16 PM

Not sure about the Radiohead comparison for early PT. The first couple of PT albums predate Pablo Honey, the first Radiohead album and it would be a stretch to describe the ambient krautrock of the next albums as Radiohead influenced.

Stupid Dream, Lightbulb Sun, Deadwing all have that Radiohead influence to me. Both bands major releases debuted in 92. Radiohead’s formation predated PT by 2 years.

I’d say the bends and ok computer have influenced PT massively.

#731 Slim

Slim

    Advanced Member

  • Hat Award Winner
  • PipPipPip
  • 3,772 posts

Posted 04 January 2019 - 05:06 PM

SW tried to write a pop hit (Permanating) on the last album but he was trying too hard and felt he had to justify its existence.

 

Just listened, thanks for that. It does sound really chart-pop-generic to me.



#732 grep

grep

    Advanced Member

  • Hat Award Winner
  • PipPipPip
  • 9,061 posts
  • LocationCharlotte, NC, USA

Posted 04 January 2019 - 05:34 PM

Stupid Dream, Lightbulb Sun, Deadwing all have that Radiohead influence to me. Both bands major releases debuted in 92. Radiohead’s formation predated PT by 2 years.

I’d say the bends and ok computer have influenced PT massively.

 

Never really thought about it. But yeah, I see that now.


falconext.png


#733 baldiepete

baldiepete

    Advanced Member

  • Peeps*
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,773 posts
  • LocationEdinburgh, Scotland

Posted 04 January 2019 - 06:05 PM

Stupid Dream, Lightbulb Sun, Deadwing all have that Radiohead influence to me. Both bands major releases debuted in 92. Radiohead’s formation predated PT by 2 years.

I’d say the bends and ok computer have influenced PT massively.


I think we may have a different opinion of what constitutes “early” PT. :D Thinking about it I can see it for those albums after Wilson started writing more song based material than the psychedelic ambient stuff of the first few albums.

#734 chemistry1973

chemistry1973

    Advanced Member

  • Peeps*
  • PipPipPip
  • 5,172 posts

Posted 04 January 2019 - 06:47 PM

When I first heard Time Flies - it stopped me in my tracks and almost made me cry like a baby. That’s Wilson’s niche right there!




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users